Author Topic: 5.0.4 Retribution Paladin Stat Weights  (Read 6980 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Ticktac

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 14
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
5.0.4 Retribution Paladin Stat Weights
« on: August 28, 2012, 12:33:50 PM »
Looks like Mr. Pandabot is not updated for Retribution Paladins. 

Please follow this link for Retribution Stat Weights according to ElitistJerks.

http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t129896-ret_5_0_beta_panda_ring_all_players/p19/#post2187001


Revulva

  • Mr. Robot's Drinking Buddy
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5876
  • Karma: 158
    • View Profile
Re: 5.0.4 Retribution Paladin Stat Weights
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2012, 01:28:10 PM »
Those weights were created with SimC it looks like. I used SimC and did some tests. Looks like valuing Haste higher like this might be a bit better, at least according to this beta version of SimC. I can change them for now, although I expect things will change again.

raychumley

  • Mr. Robot Human Resource
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1289
  • Karma: 26
  • Just trying to do my part.
    • View Profile
    • Deities and Demigods
Re: 5.0.4 Retribution Paladin Stat Weights
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2012, 02:24:12 PM »
Keep in mind too that simulations (especially beta simulators) don't always reflect the live game. I've seen some blue posts about how people are upset that sims are showing a big spread, but these are rarely true in live. Just my two cents.
Well that didn't work...

Ticktac

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 14
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
Re: 5.0.4 Retribution Paladin Stat Weights
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2012, 03:05:29 PM »
While I agree that things will change if you follow the thread (which I know is long) there are 2 independent tests being done.  As of right now these results seem to be the best to go on for now. 

It should also be noted that there are stat values independent of each other based on Tier 5 talent selections.

Revulva

  • Mr. Robot's Drinking Buddy
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5876
  • Karma: 158
    • View Profile
Re: 5.0.4 Retribution Paladin Stat Weights
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2012, 05:19:47 AM »
I read parts of that thread - we're still treating all theorycraft and stat weights with a grain of salt. The talents might be changed or re-balanced before MoP goes live anyway. As the release comes up in a few weeks, we will use whatever numbers we have available and offer the best advice that we can.

Ticktac

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 14
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
Re: 5.0.4 Retribution Paladin Stat Weights
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2012, 08:57:50 AM »
Just curious, but it looks like the stat weights have been changed now on your website.  It is now favoring Hit>Expertise>Haste>Mastery>Crit which according to the community seems to be accurate for now.  But, under "Choose a Gearing Strategy" it is still listed as (Hit>Expertise>Mastery>Crit>Haste) which is clearly not what the stat weights reflect.

I guess it's just a typo/missed change, but wanted to point it out to avoid confusing.


yellowfive

  • Mr. Robot's Drinking Buddy
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8528
  • Karma: 213
    • View Profile
Re: 5.0.4 Retribution Paladin Stat Weights
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2012, 10:13:09 AM »
Yeah I forgot to update some of the descriptions -- I'll do that in an update today sometime.
Mr. Robot is on: Twitter and Facebook

Klass

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
Re: 5.0.4 Retribution Paladin Stat Weights
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2012, 07:31:00 AM »
The robot is telling me to replace most of my STR gems with EXP gems, is that really how it is?

Ticktac

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 14
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
Re: 5.0.4 Retribution Paladin Stat Weights
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2012, 12:09:53 PM »
The robot is telling me to replace most of my STR gems with EXP gems, is that really how it is?

Strength is still king.  You need to take these suggestions with a grain of salt and some common sense.  Prior to patch 5.0.4 Ret Paladins wanted nothing to do with Haste.  The complete stat 180 is inflating the value of haste and since our gear has none Mr Robot is making every effort to bring your haste up as much as possible.
 

 

yellowfive

  • Mr. Robot's Drinking Buddy
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8528
  • Karma: 213
    • View Profile
Re: 5.0.4 Retribution Paladin Stat Weights
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2012, 12:53:02 PM »
We are doing an update today that tweaks the retribution weights a little.

Most simulators weight hit/expertise higher than strength for ret paladins.  But using those weights is impractical with an optimizer like ours -- we usually hand-tweak the weights to put strength higher than all secondary stats.  This allows us to significantly improve the speed of the optimizer without reducing its accuracy.  The end result is what you want: gem primarily for strength, use reforges to get hit/exp capped.

Haste seems to be much better now than it was previously -- the new weights will sometimes suggest hybrid str/haste gems on items with good socket bonuses.  This seems reasonable right now -- as we move towards level 90, more and more accurate stat weights will fall out.
Mr. Robot is on: Twitter and Facebook

Ticktac

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 14
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
Re: 5.0.4 Retribution Paladin Stat Weights
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2012, 08:43:46 AM »
We are doing an update today that tweaks the retribution weights a little.

Most simulators weight hit/expertise higher than strength for ret paladins.  But using those weights is impractical with an optimizer like ours -- we usually hand-tweak the weights to put strength higher than all secondary stats.  This allows us to significantly improve the speed of the optimizer without reducing its accuracy.  The end result is what you want: gem primarily for strength, use reforges to get hit/exp capped.

Haste seems to be much better now than it was previously -- the new weights will sometimes suggest hybrid str/haste gems on items with good socket bonuses.  This seems reasonable right now -- as we move towards level 90, more and more accurate stat weights will fall out.

Thank you for looking into this.  Hit and Expertise should come from reforging.  Gems should be used to increase strength and in some case haste if the socket bonus is of equal or greater value of a solid strength gem. 


yellowfive

  • Mr. Robot's Drinking Buddy
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8528
  • Karma: 213
    • View Profile
Re: 5.0.4 Retribution Paladin Stat Weights
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2012, 11:33:17 AM »
Give it a try today -- it should be working much better.
Mr. Robot is on: Twitter and Facebook

Ticktac

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 14
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
Re: 5.0.4 Retribution Paladin Stat Weights
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2012, 10:56:11 AM »
Give it a try today -- it should be working much better.

It seems to be working much better.  Just curious how you think the optimizer will react if I use the stats weights from SimC?

Here are the numbers I plan on testing


yellowfive

  • Mr. Robot's Drinking Buddy
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8528
  • Karma: 213
    • View Profile
Re: 5.0.4 Retribution Paladin Stat Weights
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2012, 11:06:59 AM »
The optimizer really requires that you put hit and expertise below strength -- it's just an artifact of how we wrote it.  The main reason is that even though hit/exp are more valuable than strength according to these weights, you almost always want to gem for strength -- our optimizer has some speed-related algorithms that "assume" your primary stat will be higher, thus it doesn't even check some very unlikely gem combinations.

Having such a high weight on hit/exp generally isn't that "useful" to an optimizer because they cap out at such low values -- keeping strength higher allows the optimizer to pick up strength on gems, and hit/exp on reforges.
Mr. Robot is on: Twitter and Facebook

aggixx

  • Mr. Robot Human Resource
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 527
  • Karma: 11
    • View Profile
Re: 5.0.4 Retribution Paladin Stat Weights
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2012, 11:20:36 AM »
They should work fine if you take into account what Yellow said, just keep in mind that the scale factors that SimC returns, even if you are simming your own character, aren't perfectly accurate. They don't reflect what happens when you trade one stat for another, only when you add to 1 stat in a vacuum.