Author Topic: Expertise Soft cap  (Read 1681 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

FrostLord

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
Expertise Soft cap
« on: August 31, 2012, 02:32:01 AM »
Dear Mr. Robot, it could be very useful for protection paladins (and maybe other classes, I haven't checked yet) if you make the Expertise caps editable.
This is because, among the various theorycrafting, it seems that, even if you take benefit from expertise until you reach the 15% hard cap, the best way to manage expertise for a prot pally is to soft cap it to 7.5%, removing dodges from the roll table.
Hard capping it is, with actual gear (and likely with the gear coming with the first tiers of Pandaria), simply too much a sacrifice in useful avoidance/survivability stats (and stamina).
I know that adding editable caps is always a stress for the server machine (as I read in previous posts), but in this case, not having an Expertise soft cap, I am having big difficulties using Ask Mr. Robot for my prot pally :(

Thanks in advance.
Frostlord

EDIT: otherwise, you could simply make the Hard cap only editable, so we can put it at 7.5%.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2012, 02:35:51 AM by FrostLord »

Revulva

  • Mr. Robot's Drinking Buddy
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6658
  • Karma: 185
    • View Profile
Re: Expertise Soft cap
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2012, 05:17:27 AM »
We realize that there are players out there who have all sorts of preferences regarding different stats. One idea we are thinking about is adding a reforge "calculator" that people can use instead of the "optimizer" which would allow people to set specific stat goals and then it would just calculate a way to get as close to those as possible. We call it a calculator because the constraints supplied may or may not be "optimal". This way we can keep the "optimizer" doing what has been proven to be theoretically optimal while still allowing users to calculate whatever set of gear they want with the new "calculator".

In this case... I'll leave it up to Yellow. He keeps up on the tanking theory, and if it looks like a soft cap for expertise is appropriate (optimal), he'll add one in for sure. As we work on our level 90 stat weight analysis, we will keep everyone up to date. How much Expertise a tank wants sounds like a quality of life/preference issue to me, so it probably makes sense to include some sort of soft capping option - I think it will all depend on how hard it is to hit the cap in level 90 gear.

yellowfive

  • Mr. Robot's Drinking Buddy
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9299
  • Karma: 236
    • View Profile
Re: Expertise Soft cap
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2012, 09:53:39 AM »
Yeah I'm looking into it... we do provide a soft cap for Blood DKs because there actually is a soft cap at 7.5% due to Death Strike -- once DS cannot be dodged, Expertise takes a sudden drop in value.  For all other tanks, Expertise has no such discontinuity, thus why we did not expose a soft cap.

That said, what people are really asking for is an arbitrary Expertise and/or Hit cap that they can move around to basically say "I want some hit and expertise, but I don't need to be capped."  The idea here is that rage/holy power generation is too low with none, but you sacrifice too many other stats if you cap it completely.

What I would prefer to do is come up with a way to quantify the effect on resource generation that these stats have.  Then the optimizer could dynamically reach a balance between hit/exp/haste/mastery and parry/dodge/stamina.  That could be a little tricky though... it might come down to what rev said, where we simply have editable arbitrary constraints.
Mr. Robot is on: Twitter and Facebook

MysticalOS

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Expertise Soft cap
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2012, 10:58:53 PM »
this is an issue i want to commenton still. sorry to bump an old topic but first thing that came up on search on exact issue i need addressing. I want to put hit/exp to soft caps only. no matter what i do with custom weights i cannot get it to do this. there is a built in hit exp priority formula but it pretty much says dump all hit to 0 and just go exp over soft cap.

the flaw in this logic is for example, not all mob are BOSS. there a adds. or heck maybe some of us just want our reforges to be a little more well rounded for heroics, or solo play. point being. i'd rathor hav 7.5% hit and 7.5% expertise than have over 7.5 exp and less than 7.5% hit. also consider the fact, tanks don't always tank, and when we're not tanking, unless we have 15% exp, we are gonna get behind the mob right? so what hapepns with > 7.5% exp and less than 7.5% hit, we still miss the boss. but not if we increase them in a more equalized method. Gara'jal is a good example of this. we spend a lot of time doing non tanking. We also spend time dpsing a target NO ONE else can see. a better method for hit/exp calculation is relevant in a sense that isn't quantifable off pure mitigation value alone.

yellowfive

  • Mr. Robot's Drinking Buddy
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9299
  • Karma: 236
    • View Profile
Re: Expertise Soft cap
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2012, 01:43:31 AM »
MysticalOS, I would need an example of where you are having trouble.  Best way is to save a profile with your custom weights and post the link here, then someone can take a look.

When I load e.g. a blood DK and put high weights on hit/exp and put 0 for exp after the soft cap, it gets me 7.5% of both.
Mr. Robot is on: Twitter and Facebook

MysticalOS

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Expertise Soft cap
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2012, 10:37:51 AM »
on prot warrior it seems to IGNORE soft cap weight, i could put ANYTHING there and it doesn't matter. it's flat out ignored for expertise. if i make exp and hit the same weight, it just tries to cap exp before hit. if i set hit to be even slightly higher it'll cap hit, but then it still tries to hard cap exp.

i problem just comes down to the fact it blatently refuses to accept an exp soft cap. it either wants to full cap it, or reforge out of it depending on main stat weight only.

Here are examples







second example is really interesting. i put a heavy weight in on soft cap, but why did it reforge to HARD cap? the hard cap value was NOT 1.1, but it treated it like it was.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2012, 10:48:43 AM by MysticalOS »

yellowfive

  • Mr. Robot's Drinking Buddy
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9299
  • Karma: 236
    • View Profile
Re: Expertise Soft cap
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2012, 10:53:19 AM »
I think that you aren't understanding how the stat weight editor works:

The soft-capped weight is how valuable you want expertise to be AFTER you reach 7.5%.  If you only want 7.5% expertise... then your soft-capped weight should be very low, or even 0.  That means, "anything more than 7.5% isn't worth much to me."

You are doing the opposite -- you are saying "once I hit 7.5% expertise, getting to 15% is super-mega-important to me!"

Try setting the soft-capped weight for expertise to 0, that should do what you want.
Mr. Robot is on: Twitter and Facebook