Author Topic: T16 Frost Mage set bonus  (Read 4520 times)

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Amalore

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T16 Frost Mage set bonus
« on: November 21, 2013, 10:17:29 AM »
Hello. I was wondering why now Mr.Robot is suggesting that the 4 piece is so good for a frost mage for the T16 set. I asking because while very little that ive found of comments is that its stinks as a  frost mage doing so very little and that replacing up to 3 of the pieces with warforged would be better. I found the same thing when I used the 4 piece that it was so very little that Skada didnt even show that it even procted on a few bosses and that i did better with with replacing the piece with non tier pieces.Any help and suggestion would be appreacaited. Also note when i did  a seach for Frost Mage T16 in the forms here nothing came up.

Revulva

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Re: T16 Frost Mage set bonus
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2013, 12:16:13 PM »
It's not an amazing set bonus... but it's not so bad that ignoring it for warforged pieces would be a DPS increase.

I did a test, where I locked in the best two non-set warforged pieces: Ebon Ritual Hood and Shipley's Shady Silks - the result simulated to less DPS than letting Mr. Robot get the 4 piece set bonus. It was pretty close, but, still better with the set bonus.

Amalore

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Re: T16 Frost Mage set bonus
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2013, 01:58:20 AM »
Thank you. Er im going to suggest that yall update the simulater. Reason I say that is I tested it on in game with and with out the warforge/ 4 piece and the 4 piece never won or came close. This i think is due to the fact that the bolder for frost only has a 30% chance to even proct and it only can proct from a brainfreeze. I dont know why a simulator would say that something that might do 1M dmg is better than stats thats going to allow you do alot more than the 1M dmg if that on  a boss. Er sry if im confusing and fustrating just trying make sure i do the best thing as well as go by more than just mrrobot for the forms on the topic.

Revulva

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Re: T16 Frost Mage set bonus
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2013, 12:25:50 PM »
You can't really test it in-game. You would have to test it thousands and thousands of times to get any usable data. That is why we use simulators.

Amalore

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Re: T16 Frost Mage set bonus
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2013, 06:02:03 PM »
Yes you can test it in game. You wont beat the bosses thousands and thousands of times befor the next patch and you can test it on the test dummies ingame. Before crafters ever came out thats how people tested.I can tell you that in game on bosses and on dumbies that the boulder didnt proct enough to do enough dmg. Its even worse than the caster trinket that drops off the dark shammans.

yellowfive

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Re: T16 Frost Mage set bonus
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2013, 06:23:59 PM »
I think that the point wasn't quite clear:

The amount of variance between trials with in-game testing is so large that you can't get an accurate picture of how well the set bonus will perform.  It's simply impossible to do enough trials in-game to accurately get a feel for certain things like this, so people have created simulators that can reduce the margin of error small enough to make confident decisions.

Let's say that you go to a target dummy, and do 100 6-minute sessions (so you fight at the target dummy for 10 hours straight, one very, very boring afternoon).  And let's say you have pretty good gear, such that fully buffed you could get up to the 250k DPS area.  Of those 100 6-minute sessions, your DPS could swing by as much as 15,000 DPS up or down from one fight to the next.

Now... if you tested on a target dummy and saw your DPS jump by 15k from one to the next, wouldn't you say that something "really good" just happened?  Nope.  You just got lucky.
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Revulva

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Re: T16 Frost Mage set bonus
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2013, 06:16:34 AM »
The toxic totem is actually a very good trinket. I'm using it now and it is often around 5% of my total damage. Sounds like you just don't like random damage procs ;)

Amalore

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Re: T16 Frost Mage set bonus
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2013, 09:00:57 PM »
I think that the point wasn't quite clear:

The amount of variance between trials with in-game testing is so large that you can't get an accurate picture of how well the set bonus will perform.  It's simply impossible to do enough trials in-game to accurately get a feel for certain things like this, so people have created simulators that can reduce the margin of error small enough to make confident decisions.

Let's say that you go to a target dummy, and do 100 6-minute sessions (so you fight at the target dummy for 10 hours straight, one very, very boring afternoon).  And let's say you have pretty good gear, such that fully buffed you could get up to the 250k DPS area.  Of those 100 6-minute sessions, your DPS could swing by as much as 15,000 DPS up or down from one fight to the next.

Now... if you tested on a target dummy and saw your DPS jump by 15k from one to the next, wouldn't you say that something "really good" just happened?  Nope.  You just got lucky.

Sorry but testing somethign on a sim 1000 times sounds good but its not if its not happening ingame. Ingame with warforged gear i do more than the just 1 M dmg that the boulder was doing. Sorry but 1M dmg isnt much and with warforged gear it has me doing way more. You like the sim and think its fine thats ok but for me its not accurate on the 4 piece T16 set bonus for Frost Mages verses warforged.

Amalore

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Re: T16 Frost Mage set bonus
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2013, 09:05:22 PM »
The toxic totem is actually a very good trinket. I'm using it now and it is often around 5% of my total damage. Sounds like you just don't like random damage procs ;)

Consider your self lucky but i have to ask did u see how many hits it had to do? For me even with the upgraded normal none warforged one it most of the time only does 2.5% dmg and it takes it 250 + hits to do that. For me thats not good it be better to have a set stat and then the other proct not 2 items that have to prot on the same trinket.

I like prots fyi. I just dont like procts that are on items with out a hard number if it doesnt proct enought to make it good. Even 5% dmg to me isnt that good on a boss fight if a hard number would let you do more dmg over all especially when it takes 300hit to do it since 300 hits with more mastery or haste will give you more dmg.

Blindsay

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Re: T16 Frost Mage set bonus
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2013, 09:15:30 PM »
I have the Normal non upgraded version of the totem (until I can get the immerseus trinket) and it usually does around 5% of my damage and the buff it grants was up 25% of the time on my last malkarok fight. It did 2,270,721 damage on 76 hits.

As for the 4p bonus, that does often seem to be terrible for me. On that same fight the 4p only procced 6 times for 1.2% of my damage or 572,671 damage

In fact on all our kills for the night (Mal to Garrosh normal) the 4p only procced a total of 41 hits and 9 crits. 1.7% damage

Revulva

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Re: T16 Frost Mage set bonus
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2013, 08:57:47 AM »
The stat increase you get from having two items that are item level 559 rather than 553 is not going to increase your damage by more than 1%. That's really the point here.

Is it a good set bonus? Not particularly? But, it is pretty comparable to having two items with +6 item level.

Amalore

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Re: T16 Frost Mage set bonus
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2013, 09:30:25 PM »
Well yall can think what yall want but ill say this my warforge does way more than the 1% so yalls sim for me is 100% wrong. The totem only does 2.5% and if lucky 3% of my over all dmg. For a frost mage the Mastery will make you do way more dmg. Its like this when I get the pally 3000 mastery it ups my burn by 10%, that's 10% more each icicle does and 10% more each water elemental bolt. ive seen even 120 more mastery jump it  a bit. Far as what I mean by the ingame vs the sim what I meant is that if a patch last at most say 6 months and you get the said item the very first week that's still only 24 times that you will actually face that boss and that if ingame the numbers show something different from the sim then then sim is wrong for the short term. Sims are good for long term things but not short term. Sims also aren't really good if a boss has a lot of mobs and mechaics that cause a lot of breaks from casting for what ever reason.