Aff Lock Rotation - Malefic Grasp & Fatal Echoes Procs


#1

Greetings,

Does the AMR Malefic Grasp rotation prioritize keeping Drain Souls on the target over refreshing Corruption and/or Siphon Life when an Unstable Affliction Fatal Echoes procs? It is a DPS gain to keep draining UAs and letting both of those dots drop.

I am hoping someone can help me understand why an AMR sim against a target dummy is so different from the SimC result. I tried matching the SimC / AMR settings to try and have an apples to apples comparison but the results are still very different.

SimC (715-01); 785,973 DPS
AMR: 715,314 DPS (http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simulator/report/10c15af677b84ea58e82f2ac7eada5da)

Bnet: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/sargeras/Varthös/simple

AMR (Export): $48;US;Sargeras;Varthös;HMSF;12;1;110;10:767,15:700,12:246,13:707,14:740,4:791;1;.s1;31;3111213;915,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,70,354,37;3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,20;142512b1507b3469,139257b1537b1806b3337,140821b1502b3336b3445;.s2;32;3211222;1170,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,169,37;1,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,7;140822b1487b1813b3516,142516b1492b3468,140826b1497b3336b3517;.s3;33;1112121;803,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,1,2,1,1,1,1,537;1,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,1,1,1,1,1,1;139253b1502b1806,139266b1502b1805b3337,139253b1512b1806b3336;.q1;128942s16b747x142512y-3255z1564;3452s1b2782b1;50s2b-1b1x-10573e5890;2043s12b-1993b1799b199e-461;3824s10b-2043b316b1528b180x-26;9s5b-3473b1464b301b1528b182x0;3s3b-2031b321b5b1703x0;50s15b-3476b1462b311b1705e7;823s9b-2006b294b2b1528x0;1613s13b-1844b321b1704;43s7b-2020b1839b180;35s6b-3475b1461b311b1705;10s11b-2026b321b1704e-7;17s8b-2025b321b1704;568s14b-2045;.q2;128943s17b748x140822y1694z-1690;3450s3b2707b3;62s8b-3b3;2035s12b-1926b1804b198e5428;2756s16;290s2b-1982b1785b199;778s1b-2029b1830b179;3s7b-2029b326b1703;3s5b-3473b1464b301b1528b182x-10604;53s15b-3478b1462b311b1705e8;757s9b-3478b1522b1775b199;1662s13b-3494b1440b326b5b1631x0;95s6b-3403b1461b311b1705;1s10b-2021b311b5b1632x0;8s11b-1958b321b5b1703x-2e-8;586s14b-2044;.q3;128941s16b749x139253y13z-13;3452s3b1062b1647;62s8b-1647b1647;1936s6b-3418b1497b1800b78;1s1b-3375b1492b1805b78;3820s10b-1903b294b1530;3s5b-1844b313b3b1528x-9033;981s9b-1824b294b2b1528x0;41s12b-1849b318b3x0e5424;1555s13b-1766b1440b326b5b1631x0;108s2b-1957b321b5b1703x0e13;10s15b-2029b326b1703e-4;572s14b-2044;691s11b5b1859b117e-4;240s7b-1951b1834b132;.r;_;.inv;1529;790;270;407;1;1308;34;1161;476;61;625;171;2;113;122;6;2;4;828;260;2115;1;653;1;38;104;1;1;51;2;1;1;37;1;1633;657;581;179;116;1;1859;1;599;1;1;1;1;1;1;1;118;1;1;1;1;1;77;2018;1697;428;371;1;16;299;0;2;35;4;1;4;320;239;1;1;3;6;118;2;748;2654;66;1;0;2919;2;1;1;1243;1;1;1;1;837;1;1;1374;78;786;178;350;233;1;1;1;29;1;597;2;939;2076;3;2;721;256;815;3;922;2;1086;1;82;1;1;1418;89;246;1281;64;99;8;3;264;6;1064;3;1643;1;1;1;1;2453;1;1;1;1;961;873;247;1;2;1;226;163;1;1;1;1;1;287;633;797;5;2391;3412;1;2;1;2954;1191;60;802;2;3949;27;626;1;1;1218;3;195;1;1;1;1;136f263;173;2;1;1;19;0;17;364;94;0;1;1;1;8;17;43;75;750;1259;1;1;592;1220;70;1;9;198;1;1;1;1;338;14;1671;315;21;309;257;600;565;2008;6;632;2510;3;1117u445;1u0;1u0;1u0;1u0;686;998;715;84;686;3313;208;823;1;61;1;444u20;215u0;377u0;1u0;1u0;1u0;635u0;22u0;2095;11;528;437u26;40u14;2u0;106u0;212u0;1u0;9u0;2251;541;28u0x115803e5281;2089;1;4103;679;1;7;0;0;2;1;2;2;1;1;6;444;108;867;49;636;311;0;0;0;1;0;0;0;0;0;0;1704;2;0;0;0;315;10;93;247b565b2;53b0;100;50;485;0;129;1;35;25;1;0;695;2;4;77b-6b5;1b0;1b0;1b1;1b-1;679;147;1684;1;178;28e45;31;38;1;98;248;571;964;688;1328;65;2;243;1;34;1481;17;8;0;0;38u26b-525b525;5u0b0;6u0b0;0u-2;6u0;0u0b-525b525;258;0;0;0;1;1;1;1;1;193b58b25e-1;2369;33;0;644;78;88;35;471;149;439b100x23450y13z-13;2b-1x1569y1694z-1690;1305;2145b2707b3;62b-3b3;1116;1;0;0;0;36b-3417b1486b1809b173;25b-1967b1795b173;1b-1983b286b1721;4b-3494b1502b1794b200e104;133b-1984b256b1529b199x-10604e7;154;15;0;0;0;0;0;278b-1984b1785b79;1b-1854b1775b199;193b-1984b1785b199e0;3b-1984b1785b199;9b-2014b291b1696;8b-1987b291b1697;58b-1978b1804b198e-8;40b-2012b291b1697e0;1b-1978b276b1528b173;6b-1972b276b1723;2b-2014b286b5b1696;1803;312;120b-1982b286b1721;433;99b-1997b1799b198;3b-1997b1799b199;2b-3493b1485b281b5b1721;38b-2017b1819b80;18b-1864b1785b199;118b-1999b1800b173;51b-1958b1785b199;106;39;338;92;101b-2024b294b1530;5b-1824b294b1530;3b-1829b299b1530e1;4b-1834b304;90b-299b1830b179;3b-2029b326b1703;95;463;255b-3476b1522b1775b199;41;23b-2029b299b1530;1b-1834b304;42b-319b318b3x-2e-5;1b-306b304;1b-304b304e466;82b-304b304;2b-319b318;13b-333b335;427b1577b1;2b-2b3;1b-2b1;1b-2b2;1b-1b1;1b-1b1;1b-1b1x-4;22;3;6;12;3;39;3;34;17;283;380;1;8;6;144;12;1;1;1;46b-3343b1440b326b5b1631x6;8b-1952b1844b180;48b-2034b331b1631;0b-1947b316b1632;1b-1948b316b1632;1b-1958b326b1703;3b-2019b316b1632;1b-1963b331b1631;0b-1962b331b1631;34b-1947b311b5b1632x0;7b-1958b326b1703;1b-2029b321b5b1703x-2e-462;3b-2014b311b1705;1b-2031b321b5b1703x0e9;6b-2024b1844b180;4b-2029b326b1703e-1;1b-2029b326b1703;100;179;95v110b-1704;40;14;1;1;2;1;7;95;159;47;200b-1202;0b0;140;125;56b867b1859b117e-7;162;76b-1961b1976;2b-1966b1834b132;2b-1961b1962;10b-1962b1962;36;60b-3429b1462b1834b171;20b-2015b1976;787;285;0;0;0;0;0;0;48;649;9;85b-1986b331b1631$


#2

I took a look at this. The reason that SimC’s damage is so high is because they aren’t calculating the damage increase from Reap Souls (Deadwind Harvester) correctly. It seems like maybe they are doubling the damage from Soulstealer as well, which doesn’t get affected by the buff in-game.

I also tried your suggestion of letting siphon and corruption drop while there are 2+ UA still on the target, and it didn’t result in a damage increase (or decrease). Here are the reports if you want to do some testing on your own:

Default:
http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simulator/report/4c1d395c18704b97bbf0fa704eb89ad6

Letting DoTs drop with 2+ UA::
http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simulator/report/dfaa7f458d154a7a9ff810325b228f29

I got a slight gain if I let them drop when there were 3+ UA on the target:
http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simulator/report/bf18c0ea495a4b1db0205469415aec82


#3

Thanks for the reply Swol.

If SimC is incorrectly buffing “soulstealer” while under Reap Souls then yeah that would explain the massive damage difference…

However, I am surprised that the AMR sim doesn’t show an increase when draining UAs over refreshing SL and Cor as the napkin math, guides and ingame evidence all point to it being a DPS increase even when draining a single Fatal Echoed UA.

Since UA is such a big part of our damage can you help me validate the following:

  • UA: 386.4%SP ticks every 2sec lasts 8 secs - 4 ticks total at 96.6%SP dmg/tick

  • Corr: 254.1%SP ticks every 2secs, lasts 14 sec - 7 ticks total at 36.3%SP dmg/tick

  • SL: 289%SP ticks every 3secs, lasts 15 secs - 5 ticks total at 57.8%SP dmg/tick

Malefic Grasp buffs our dots by 70% so a single “buffed” UA tick (96.6% x 1.7 = 164.22%) would do way more damage than the “lost” ticks due to not refreshing Corr/SL. If Deadwind Harvester is still up then it would be even more damage.

I cant see how wasting 2xGCDs on refreshing SL or Corruption would be better than continuing draining and hence buffing the 4 ticks of a UA that procced for “free” with a Fatal Echoes.

Can you try or show me how i can sim a rotation where draining even a single fatal echoed UA is preferred over refreshing SL/Corr*?

*Just to be clear, i dont mean casting a single UA over refreshing SL/Corr. I am talking about what happens during a MaleficGrasp drain cycle with Deadwind Harvester and getting lucky Fatal Echos procs where you prioritize the buffing/draining of those UAs over refreshing SL/Corr. Once the UAs completely fall off then you would resume normal refresh priority.


#4

This is a case where I don’t think napkin math is really going to be enough. There are more complicated interactions at play, so simulation is going to be the way to figure this out.

Here is a sim where I only refresh Corruption and Siphon life if Deadwind Harvester drops off or UA drops off while Deadwind is up (no DPS gain or loss from just keeping dots up):
http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simulator/report/98dea91c4ab944fabf24b6287a49c6c7

And here is one where I refresh Corruption and Siphon Life only if there is no UA on the target (this is noticeably sub-optimal):
http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simulator/report/328aaff5fdeb4d2082ec1714bbd52263

So, it looks like the strategy of always draining UA’s when Deadwind Harvester is up works just fine. But keeping 100% uptime on your DoTs is also just fine!

I think it is worth noting that the way my rotation works is that I do not cancel a Drain Soul channel to refresh DoTs, I only refresh between channels. You can refresh SL and Corruption between channels and only lose one tick of buffed UA damage a lot of the time.


#5

Awesome Swol. Thanks again for your reply.I am starting to understand how to edit private rotations in AMR and how the MaleficSwitch works in your rotation to trigger the MG cycle, so hopefully soon I can start testing these things by myself.

One thing I forgot to mention, and I am not sure how to sim, is that afflic locks with MG are fine in refreshing Agony, SL and Corruption outside of Pandemic timers before going into a MG drain cycle once you have enough tormented souls (2+) and Souls shards (2+). We do this so that if Fatal Echo procs mid drain we can continue draining and not lose too many ticks of SL and Corruption.

In other words the situation i am trying to sim is:

After standard opening where you apply all your dots…

  1. Drain until dots are inside pandemic range, fishing for more souls and a minimum of 2 shards.
  2. Re-dot dots.
  3. UA twice minimum,
  4. Reap with at least 2 tormented souls so that all UA ticks are under Deadwind harvester
  5. UA if there are conduit procs, you need to be at 3 shards or lower before continuing.
    6. Drain until all UA are gone. If corruption or siphon fall off its fine, only stop draining for agony refreshes.
  6. Once all UA are gone resume normal rotation of reapplying/refreshing dots under pandemic and draining until you can go into another drain cycle.

I want to try and edit the OnDemand Malefic APL so that once the Malefic switch is ON (2+souls AND 2+shards) I refresh my dots even if there is slight clipping outside of pandemic before going into full drain mode.

Appreciate your patience while i learn the ins and outs of the AMR sim.


#6

So, that rotation you want to make is actually really difficult to achieve in a simulator running off a priority queue, since you are inserting a “cast sequence” into the middle of the priority. I was able to create the rotation exactly as you wanted it, though, after much effort. Here is the resulting report:
http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simulator/report/08f5e9a45fbf4e09ac82194ccac8e783

Note that I had to make a custom version of the wiki and make a special function to help me achieve the rotation. If you run this rotation vs “Live” it won’t work.

The damage goes down substantially from the other rotations we have been looking at. One thing you mentioned: refreshing DoTs right before casting the UAs - that I think can be incorporated into the other rotations for a DPS increase:
http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simulator/report/9d2c79e691b547969eb3ab27ddc272c6

Part of the problems I see with the rotation you mentioned, which might be able to be tweaked… is that we might be able to improve it by dumping shards close to the end of the fight. I tried that:
http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simulator/report/9629574c102446baab11e9c19b265ca1

Only a small improvement.

This follows a pattern I’ve seen a lot over the years. When an interesting talent like Malefic Grasp is introduced into the game, people theorize and try lots of strict sequences or segments of sequences to maximize them… but after a while it always comes back to a priority queue style of playing ends up being stronger overall.


#7

Once again thank you for your reply and patience. I’ve had a hard time explaining what the rotation “feels” like during live since encounters require you to plan out when are the optimal times to dump UAs but i think you nailed it with the Sim #2

The DPS decrease in Sims #1 & #3 is disappointing but thanks for trying to sim it.

The idea of refreshing dots right before going into a UA dump is something I was trying to describe with the small caveat that i do prioritize draining UAs over refreshing SL/Corr if they happen to fall off. One of your earlier tests showed that doing this with 3+ UAs was a DPS gain but doing that with only 1 UA was neglible. I will keep that in mind for future encounters

Reviewing the 2nd rotation APL I also noticed that you are refreshing SL before Corruption! Which is something i haven’t mentioned but also smooths out the rotations a little bit since SL lasts 1 sec longer than Corruption!

I tried doing something similar to what you have below but had trouble getting the Sim not cast 100+ agonys, now i see how the proper way to code it is.Thanks!

In conclusion I know I started by asking about another SimC vs AMR scenario but i’m glad you took the time to deep dive into the Afflic Rotation. Really excited to see this Simulator get better and better and I hope Gearing Strategy v2 with Machine Learning is out soon.

One last question:
Will you be making the rotation for the Sim #2 available in the public list in the sim going forward?

Keep up the good work.


#8

I’m going to update the default one to include these tweaks.

Just so you know you can always click the copy button at the top of the rotation while you are viewing it, and it’ll add it to your list so that you can use it for your simulations.

The V2 gearing strategies will be out before the next raid. We’re going to have to table them for a week or so while we figure out 7.2 stuff since it’s coming out next week… earlier than we thought!


#9

There’s actually another couple tweaks I made that increase the damage further:
http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simulator/report/3a2958a6892840afbe49183fd6d25474

I noticed that the way the rotation was set up… that little sub-rotation for dumping UA was short-circuiting the life tap, so some damage was being lost due to not having enough mana. I added in a life tap before using UA and that helps the damage.

I also adjusted the soul shard use to spread them out more over the fight to get higher contagion uptime.


#10

Awesome, this looks great.

I am also very excited with the new 7.2 Rend Soul golden trait. With it the soul RNG should be reduced and the uptime on Deadwind Harvester will go up significantly.