All defence - Offensive trait has higher score than defensive

On my warrior even if I select all defence, BiB will suggest Ruinous Bolt over Deafening Crash. DC is widely said to be the no1 defensive trait for warriors (at least having one), and since I don’t have any other DC in the setup I’m a bit surprised that it suggests a trait that is only for dps as better. Going all defence I would have expected DC to be much more valuable.

Imgur

My export string:
$79;EU;Kilrogg;Eilas;Meltdown;6;1;120;61;3:175,13:3,12:23,11:175;2;.s1;34;;;.s2;35;2122122;0.27.2_1.12.3;.s3;36;1123211;0.22.2_1.25.2;.q2;158028s3b1607b3168b11b1479a277638a10442a-21900a-2218a16;29s1b-4658b3168b11b1478a14779a9323a-24093a4450a-4459;18s2b-4672b3340b1b1383;23s16b-4709b3176b20b1047e5965;1359s10b-4258b3191b19b203x168639e-33;3965s6b-4964b1581b3164b1059;3138s11e11;708s5b-4318b3248b11b1477b83b3a24078a24a-21900a-2218a16;1121s7b-4862b3299b12;500s12b-3311b3299b12e165;429s13b-3311b3296b15b1052;3s14;168s15b-4343b3279b16b1491b7x1;604s17b-4813b3299b12e-144;18s9b-3291b3279b16b1491b7x-4;32s8b-4793b3279b16b1491b7x3;.q3;157996s3b1592b3183b11b1476a279172a2669a-17733a4488a-4618;26s5b-4655b3168b11b1477a15194a-6348a-1278a-2947a-4621;53s2b-4673b3342b1b1383;1382s10b-4724b3191b19b203x168639e5932;3965s6b-4964b1581b3164b1059;3952s11b-4318b3259b1538b24e179;31s1b-4821b3248b11b1478b57b27a15194a-1536a-13652a4453a-4459;984s7b-4861b3299b12;285s13x3;215s12b-3311b3299b12e-3;428s14b-3311b3299b12;172s15b-3291b3279b16b1491b7x-2;224s16b-4778b3264b1057b506e-146;31s17b-4842b3278;367s9b-3278b3279b16b1491b7x-4;32s8b-4793b3279b16b1491b7x3;.ess;3_1;4_2;5_1;6_2;7_1;12_3;13_1;15_1;22_2;23_1;25_2;27_2;28_2;32_1;.inv;2459;117;194;1;1;4;59;1;2;533;204;2;281;499;2;5;7;6;5;5;2;1118;1441;243;720;1;2646;1;2;809;995;455;622;2550;2;6;7781;4;1;1;34;600;15260;2;7;20533;1;5136;2134;4602;5371;1;8675;1070;3;0;0;0;2930;3967;108;8029u505x76695e4422;6826;48;1;1;1;1;1;1431;806;1895;3;245;1434;6002;3156;1;1;1;20;4165b752b744x56340y8252z6p664p831p314q-340q340q3r-343r340r3;15;604b-745b750x-8445y231z4464p-317p298p16q-1042q728q238q76r-325r342r1511;2b-751b735z6151;3542b326b1819;5190;836;8;2;239;1465;1254;159;2123b-171b171;7837;932;8;1;1;1;1;1;1;46;19;1;54;10;27;144;1;1909;175;1;1;3097b-2038b3183b11b1476a279172a2669a-17733a4488a-4618;26b-4655b3168b11b1477a15194a-6348a-1278a-2947a-4621;4438;576;188;0;380;139;144b-4641b3164b1059;1718;98;245;497;401;42;82;1;41;47;18;25;272b-4318b3259b1538b24e1689;31b-4821b3248b11b1478b57b27a15194a-1536a-13652a4453a-4459;150b-4861x23978y1069z-93p1449;183;405;2;1;69;1;87;24;108;52;13;145;5;24x-6;82b-15b3314;46;30;386;99b-3299b3299b12;12;3;1;1;117;40;119;84;19b-3276b3264b1057b506e-149;31b-4842b3278;128;339;1;986$

Any input on this? Am I missing something in the gear setup or misunderstanding all defense?

I can take a look – seems that trait got a pretty low rank for toughness.

It looks like the rotation has a bunch of logic to maximize the value of that trait – get the maximum possible extensions out of it. (And looking at a few simulations, it does a pretty good job – there is significantly higher Demoralizing Shout uptime with that trait.)

But… that actually seems to make toughness go down a little bit sometimes. Kind of interesting – we’ll play around with it. Could just be a specific timing issue with the boss script used, e.g. there is logic to avoid overlapping defensive abilities since spreading them out to get better uptime is usually more beneficial. Maybe in some cases the extended demo shout is causing a shift in the timing/availability of other abilities that doesn’t line up well with the fight.

Ah ok, makes sense. Is dps given any value at all when you choose “all defence”? I mean “the best defence is a good offence”, getting the boss down faster makes survival easier. Just curious.

When you set to “all defense” it only considers defense. Any other setting, it will try to reach a certain toughness threshold, then go for more offensive things.

With a different gear setup I’m still having it suggest “Ruinous Bolt” instead of a defensive trait. On that piece I can choose between ruinous bolt that give only dps (not a stat increase, just a flat dps increase) or Callous Reprisal which give a defensive benefit and it picks the dps trait even with All Defense selected.


Capture2

$79;EU;Kilrogg;Eilas;Meltdown;6;1;120;65;3:175,13:3,12:23,11:175;2;.s1;34;;;.s2;35;2122122;0.27.3_1.12.3_2.6.3;.s3;36;1123211;0.22.2_1.27.3_2.13.3;.q2;158022s5b1607b3168b11b1477a288080a-12448a-11645a4612a-4621;35s1b-4656b3168b11b1478a14779a9323a-24093a4450a-4459;18s2b-4664b3332b1b1383;23s17b-4709b3176b20b1047e5965;215s7b-4248b3184b224;5s11b-3408b3181b227b840e143;1108s6b-4238b3172b226b840;29s3b-4233b3158b11b662b823a8846a5936a-14776a4453a-4459;2s10b-4679b3191b19b203x168642e-176;177s16b-3413b3194b221e31;9040s13x0;207s9b-3505b306b2978b13x0;8s12b-3312b3299b12e148;432s14;168s15b-3286b3274b16b1492b6x0;654s8b-4788b3274b16b1492b6x0;.q3;158075s2b1600b3332b1b1383;238s7b-4714b3184b224;1112s9b-3398b3171b227;1s6b-3398b3172b226b840;29s3b-4233b3158b11b662b823a272824a5936a-14776a4453a-4459;2s10b-4679b3191b19b203x168642e5932;341s17b-3398b3179b17;4089s16b-3181b3164b1059e30;3381s5b-4318b3248b11b1477b83b3a13658a9741a-21197a-2218a16;106s11b-4822b3259b1538b24e149;31s1b-4821b3248b11b1478b57b27a15194a-1536a-13652a4453a-4459;1269s13x0;215s12b-4861b3299b12e0;428s14b-3311b3299b12;172s15b-3286b3274b16b1492b6x0;654s8b-4788b3274b16b1492b6x0;.ess;3_1;4_3;5_1;6_3;7_1;12_3;13_3;15_1;22_2;23_1;25_2;27_3;28_2;32_1;.inv;2459;117;194;1;1;4;59;1;2;533;204;2;281;499;2;5;7;6;5;5;2;1118;1441;243;720;1;2646;1;2;809;995;455;622;2550;2;6;7781;4;1;1;34;600;15260;2;7;20533;1;5136;2134;4602;5371;1;8675;1070;3;0;0;0;2930;3967;108;8029u505x76695e4422;6826;48;1;1;1;1;1;1431;806;1895;3;1679;6002;3156;1;1;1;20;4165b752b744x56340y8252z6p664p831p314q-340q340q3r-343r340r3;15;604b-745b750x-8445y231z4464p-317p298p16q-1042q728q238q76r-325r342r1511;2b-751b735z6151;3542b326b1819;5190;836;8;2;239;1465;1254;159;2123b-171b171;7837;932;8;1;1;1;1;0;1;1;46;19;0;1;0;54;0;10;27;144;1;2078;6;0;1;1;4526b-2018b3171b227;194b-3408b3184b224;179b-3403b3179b17;255;2407;576;188;0;380;139;144b-3181b3164b1059e1540;1816;245;0;497;115e-19;328;124;47;18;25;166b-4318b3248b11b1477b83b3a277636a9741a-21197a-2218a16;97b-4807b3244b1057b506;9b-4822b3259b1538b24e168;31b-4821b3248b11b1478b57b27a15194a-1536a-13652a4453a-4459;150b-4861x23978y1069z-93p1449;183;405;2;1;69;1;1;86;132;52;13;145;111b-15b3314;46;515b-3299b3299b12;12;3;1;1;117;40;203;517;1;986$

I guess we need to see more of the settings you’re using as this is what I see with that import string.

Ye sorry, set Azerite threshold to disabled first, that’s probably the difference.

I don’t see it recommending ruinous bolt with that string. I used these settings:

Do you have different talents or major essence preference maybe?

I got exactly the same setup. I’m starting to believe it might be some caching issue or something. If I change the name in the import string to for example “Eila” then I get the correct recommendations, using that string. i’ve tried clearing my web browser cache and even using a completely different browser, but it makes no difference.

Is there any way to clear all information you have stored about a character on your end? I’m guessing you store some information about the setup on a per-account basis since you don’t get the same issue. I tried using the “waste basket”, but when I import the character again it still remembers my setups. And creating a new setup on the same character has the same issue.

It feels like this is not a very high priority issue, I’m going to be using the customize option anyway, at this point I’m mostly curious to why it happens. So I’d say ignore the issue unless it’s a problem for others as well.

Yeah there must be a different setting somewhere… I can try resetting the cached profile for that specific character on our server – you would have to remake your Best in Bags setups though. That would probably fix the issue if you want me to give that a try.