Outlaw stat weights? Mastery > Versatility?


#1

Hello guys,

This was possibly asked before but why does AMR tells me to enchant rings with mastery as an outlaw rogue? Is there some kind of breakpoint where mastery becomes better than vers?
I have mastery heavy gear as it is (around 130-150%

Cheers


#2

I made a pretty detailed post on this topic a while back on mmoc. I can find it when I get back to my computer.

The short of it is that it depends a lot on your talents and legendary items. I recommend making a “version 2” gearing strategy for your character, so that the recommendations are tailored to your situation.

When you have no legendary items or set bonuses mastery is a stronger stat. Our defaults right now are for people who don’t have particular items. The new defaults we are working on will be more adaptive.


#3

I have most rogue legendaries and a ton of 905-910 gear in my bags including full t19.
The spec is more or less standard oulaw spec.


#4

You have a to run a custom gear strategy : Simulate -> Sim Type : BETA! Strategy V2


#5

I picked machine learning instead of stat weights, now it recommends me versatility but… my simulated dps is 5% lower as well as my ilvl. Last time it put on stuff that summed up to 909 ilvl, now it only picked stuff to get to 905. The dps was 770 and now its 735
I am really confused.

p.s. i am using the website, not the desktop app since my laptop is quite weak


#6

You need to do this:


#7

I see. Unfortunately it doesnt allow me to run it on the website because it will take “too long to run” but i ll download it as soon as i can.

So what should be my course of action assuming i am currently equipping full muti mastery gear but have a lot of options in the bags: should i just do gearing strategy with my muti gear equipped or should i use “best in bags” before i try to simulate? (i am quite good with muti but totally clueless as outlaw :slight_smile:


#8

The stats you have when you run the gearing strategy don’t matter. All that matters is what legendary items and set bonuses you have equipped, as those affect the results significantly.


#9

So i did what you advised:

  1. Using standard spec
  2. Having 4 set bonus equipped
  3. Having shoulders and valeera pants equipped
  4. Ran the strategy

Here is the result it says i should aim for 910 ilvl.
Crit: 1000
Haste: 8000
Mastery: 2500
Versatility: 12800

Rough stat weights:
Agi: 17.3
Vers: 10.3
Haste: 9
Crit: 8
Mastery: 6.6

Is it possible that haste is actually THAT good for me?
Also it says that the result is achievable — is 13k versatility achievable in pve gear?

Thanks a lot for your help!


#10

Those stat goals are the stats you would get in a perfect world. Keep in mind that the machine learning solution creates a function that predicts DPS based on your gear. It will know what to do when you can’t get that much Versatility.

I think that Haste isn’t necessarily “that good” so much as Mastery just isn’t great with your current gear, and the shoulders reduce the value of getting more Crit.

If you use that custom strategy with machine learning turned on, the optimizer will pick gear for you that gets you very close to optimal simulated DPS.


#11

What do you mean by “based on your gear”? I thought it simulates different gear setups (not necessarily the ones that i have equipped or in the bags) to figure out which combination of stats gives highest dps. Possibly with a caveat of having 4pc bonus and taking into account equipped legendaries.
Is this how it works?

If i have this machine learning stat template as my default strategy and use “best in bags” it will use said strategy to pick up from available gear to get to highest simulated dps, right?


#12

Right.

What we do is simulate a lot of combinations of stats for your setup. Your setup includes talents, set bonuses, legendary items, etc. That creates a bunch of data points that tell us how much DPS you would do with different stat combinations.

Then, we use machine learning techniques to generate a function that will predict your DPS. This is not a linear function. The function includes the relationship between stats. So, while lots of haste and versatility might be the stat allocation that gets you the highest DPS - it is entirely possible that there is a set of gear with lots of crit and mastery that also does a lot of DPS.

Stat weights have no way to predict this - they are linear and just pick one stat as best and stack it. This is why our new approach is better at picking good gear, but also confusing. Out update to the UI should help with this a bit. Basically… ignore the “stat goals” and just trust that the optimizer is picking gear for you that simulates to the most DPS.

When I say “based on your gear” I meant to say: based on the gear you have available to you. If you are doing Best in Bags, you are limited as to what stat allocations you can get. The optimizer picks the best one you can get from the gear you have - which is why the result will often not seem to match those “stat goals”.


#13

Thanks for detailed reply. I think i kind of understand it…

Only thing i don’t understand yet, assuming i have full artifact traits and don’t change my spec

  1. How often do i need to simulate a gearing strategy, when should i expect the strategy to change?
  2. Should i simulate gearing strategy with every possible combination of legendary items equipped? (i have like 10)

#14

You make a new one if you get a big change on your gear like: a new set bonus, relic, or legendary item. Use the two legendary items you think are best - you can use the default gearing strategy to make a guess as to the best two, but, really you need to just do a few simulations and try things out for that one.

We have an update for ToS to the “auto” gearing strategies that will make it so you don’t really have to make custom gearing strategies hardly at all for the most part, and it will more reliably be able to pick the best two legendary items for you as well.


#15

I see.
Does BiS feature works properly? E.g. will it pick the absolute best combination of currently available gear i need to work towards?


#16

Yes, BiS works. Just keep in mind that “Best in Slot” is a bit of a misnomer these days, since getting a randomly upgraded (titanforged, etc) piece of gear can change your BiS list at any time.