[Paladin] [Ret] Does BiB not factor in legendary procs when calculating? At odds w/guides for Ret

gearing-strategy

#1

AMR toon link: https://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/usa/sargeras/nassins

Pretty much every site I go to suggests to use Whisper of the Nathrezim & Soul of the Highlord if you don’t have chain (I don’t,) BiB consistently tells me to use Kil’jaeden’s Burning Wish and Liadrin’s ring instead. Is there a reason/logic behind this (i.e. are the other sites wrong) or is this due to AMR not adding in legendary procs when calculating BiB? Or is it a case that my other gear for those slots is poor enough that the DPS from replacing those items is more than the DPS gained from the legendary procs?

Thanks in advance for any help.

BiB string:

$55;US;Sargeras;Nassins;Allegiance Reborn;5;1;110;13:800,15:800,12:800,1:800,14:800,5:800;3;.s1;19;0000000;;;;;.s2;20;;;;;;.s3;21;1112112;40,1,1,1,1,3,2,1,1,1,1,1,296,1,1,1,765,157,286,1,1,1,83;1,4,4,4,4,4,1,4,4,4,4,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,4,1,1,23,1;152043b1457b3528b3613,143683b1572b3528b3573,152046b1492b3337b3610;1,1739,32,12,-1741,1519,-1517,1,0,1,0,1,0/2,1695,41,3,-1731,1,-12,1,0,1,0,1,0/3,1698,32,11,-1732,-3,-5,1,0,1,0,0,0/152035b1462b3336b3613,1697,40,-2,-1735,11,-2,0,0,0,0,0,0/136769b1582b3337b3417,1688,32,4,-1731,1517,-1520,0,0,0,0,0,0/152045b1457b3528b3613,1698,41,4,-223,-1518,7,0,0,0,0,0,0;.q1;120978s16b737x147098y-2638z-6965;16070s11b2722b111x-7249e5428;1314s3b-3530b1432b2042b14e472;7s15b-2041b2029b12e-466;869s12b-2011b289b1531e-6;1653s8b-1860b1859b178;1236s7b-2007b1829b80;2132s14b43b111;1237s2b-2053b1819b231e11;1515s13b-2085b1855b227;61s6b-2057b2021b34;87s10b-2095b2061b36;1s1b-2097b2061b36;591s5b-2082b2046b44;2683s9v110b17b1;.q3;120978s16b737x152043y-8360z8363;16042s15b2722b171e5434;417s5b-2043b1750b80;9574s13b-1935b1855b227;148s10b-2067b2031b34;1s1b-3520b1455b2031b34;1s7b-3519b1459b1834b226;1s3b-2095b2061b36e466;33s12b-2037b1810b225e-472;2451s9b-3522b1532b105b131b1720b45x-463;1998s11b-114b171x0e0;329s2b-2173b351b1720b85x-3e11;47s6b-2131b1855b276;354s8b-2141b2056b86;409s14b-2102b296b1528b237x3;.r;_;.inv;6948;769;195;4671;207;30;685;518;598;2;515;1584;1;459;722;802;313e1900;569;274;86;867;511;69;886;1962;5766;2083;1728;3090;953;2247;85;4508;284;51;820e3457;133;1;733;2564;599x40111y0e-1568;1671;624;5;909;1358;2381;6543;1017;0;1;2;6524;230;481;4;77;377;2;9;6200;2;1;1;1;1;7834;282;974;170u445;1u0;1626;834;2646;2375;7198u60x75694e1511;1429;621;4140;1145;1;920;55;4964;891;498;442b3493;42;968;49;1;150;175u24b-2851b1;2205;1673;1300;1;180;4;2;1;1;1;1;1;1;1;5;2;1;1;0;3;0;265u2b-82b5;48;1;1;1;1;1;2;190b59b24e25;35;3101;64;0;0;10;5;142;362;150;2;1;1;3;590;0;176;896;1;1;1;1;1;1;1;1;1;1;1;67;653;1;1;1538b2810b171;9b-1819b1759x14415e103;1119;5;0;3;9;1;1;1;1;1;14;73;0;1;74;2587;312;115b-1988b1755b80;279b-1606b1819x26e0;483b-2053b1760b79;111;1135;455b-1874b1794b237;367e0;33;560;539;14;101b-1762b1759;600;159;47;323;360;1;1570v110b-2955;353b1196b1819;99b-171b111;139b-1988b1755b80;2260;227b-1915b1834b226e6;84b-2060b306b1528b226x21337;4b-2055b2021b34;86b-2065b2031b34e0;549;3409;139v0b34;309;0;3;1;11;74;66;1;1;1;241b-2139b2071b85;48b-2141b1865b276;5b-2126b2041b83;19b-2149b1874b277;0b-2151b1874b277;10b-2156b2071b85;0b-2156b2071b85;50;1;1;52b-2156b2071b85;3b-3573b1417b2071b85;223b-3572b1436b1859b278;1b-2142b336b1720b86x0;2b-2137b1859b278;1b-2132b1854b278;37b-3573b1421b346b1528b277;272b-2141b336b1720b82;333;2;267;1589$


#2

Your case is a very good example of why a gear optimizer is so handy. Here’s a simulation with your current gear (which the optimizer thinks is the best setup you can have with whisper+soul ring):

1,250,478 DPS https://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simulator/report/48ebab8e2c554ace8a7abbfee0e887f4

And here is a simulation with the gear recommended by Best in Bags:

1,262,519 DPS https://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simulator/report/93f9fef04d1d49c8a0d9451ec8852344

They are pretty close, but the Best in Bags result is slightly better.

Honestly I’d say that you could use whichever you prefer – in general any of the legendary combinations suggested on the right side after doing Best in Bags are good enough that you could perform extremely well in-game with it.

Most other sites/guides would never think to recommend this combination because they don’t take all of your other available gear into account. Best in Bags is designed precisely to find these non-obvious setups. In your particular case, my guess is that because you have to use a really low item level set piece to equip Whisper, you lose enough value that putting on your 915 set cloak with different legendaries ends up being a small gain. But I usually just let the robot figure all that out for me.

edit: To answer your original question, we factor everything into the optimization: legendaries, set bonuses, trinkets, relics, crucible traits, switching talents to make best use of the soul rings, even how many people on your team have pantheon trinkets (configurable in the options and filters).


#3

Thank you for the fast response!

Does the data suggest that Liadrin’s is now a better choice for Ret than Soul, or is it situationally based?


#4

In your case, they perform almost identically. In general, they’re close enough that it will depend on your other gear which is technically the best; in practice, you can use either one and will have a hard time telling which is better.

Retribution actually has some of the more balanced legendary choices from what I have seen. Combinations of the soul ring, liadrin’s, whisper, chain tend to be the best, Ashes to Dust is a decent choice as well. Sephuz’s actually performs pretty well too, even if you can’t trigger the extra effect reliably.

Combinations with Chain of Thrayn do tend to win out though.