Priest issues with gearing


#1

Hello
There is some real issues with stat weight and gear optimization for any priest spec from what i have observed.

For example Holy gear which askmrrobot tells me to do:


this gearing is really bad…

  1. why it suggests me to use such fail azerite powers? almoust all of them do not work for holy - they are for disci for crying out loud…
  2. same goes for shadow - it suggest me completley wrong azerites. as You can see on screenshot - i have the azerites 2x chours, 2x spiteful 1x whisper - and i done it after vising wowhead, wowlogs and other site… mrRobot tried to force me completley wrong azerites power for SP (not to mention wring seconday stats investments, it forced me versa over crit/haste).
    As i remmber from my tests and raids - with robot gearing i was bearly doing 10k dps, while i changed to those - its almoust +10k dps more… (same goes for gear - which i choosed, the gearing suggestion from robot isnt good neither)
    But lets go back to holy - why robot forces me to wear my dps gear dagger and wand? it doesnt give me what i need - mastery… i have in my bags Phoenixfire Staff which gives me over 138crit and 107 mastery which is far better than dagger and oh for holy.

So my question is - what statweight ARM is using?
I am using ARM since i think cata - im paying even monthly since cata also, but im sorry to write it - this site is worser and worser - i expect from here to help me identify best gear combination - which for now arm fails. i have to use: wowhead, wowlogs, mallet, raidbot and addons as sumulcraft and pawn besides the arm (with monthly sub which im paying)… This is geting out of control.
I want to use one site and one addon (i think i have right to demand and expect it since im paying for this) which will work as all sites above, with proper statweight implemented.
I dont see anymore point in monthly sub here since the results are wrong.


#2

On the left you see that list of your specs? The order of that list matters - that tells us which spec you consider most important. If you don’t have enough gear to share between all 3 specs it will pick the traits for the highest priority spec and “reserve” them. Drag Holy to the top of the list if you consider it the most important.


#3
  1. AMR - gives You wrong azerite choices - advices you to take 3x whispers of the damned and 2x chorus of whispers - which is bad. better is 2x chorus of insanity (preferably 3), 2x spiteful apparitions (if you cant have 3x choruse, than 2x chorus and 1 whisper)
    Traits usage you can cleary see in wowlogs - just go easly:
    image
    and this list goes and goes
  2. enchant on weapon sho uld be preferable quick navigation not crit like ARM adivices - since you have chorus of insanity which buffs crit rate every time you are out of void form.
    Unfortunetelly Raidbots is much more precises with this than ARM acually - reason is - ARM runs their own statweight which are not near to the real one or what You can find on logs.

its sad to say - but for me - there is no more reasons to support a site which isnt doing what it supposed to. Im older person and i dont like to waste my private time to do reaserch on 5 other sites what should i use and have, kinda expected ARM to do that :).


#4

or… explain to me those azerites advice for holy?

Left side - what i am wearing - azerites for holy including word of mending…
Right side - what ARM suggest

On what earth it is superior to what i have?


#5

part 2 (can only post one screen in post)

  1. Phoenixfire gives me 138 or sommit mastery, dagger and OH - ZERO
    my gearing gives me 1266 mastery:

    when i gear up as ARM advices - ill loose to much mastery and azerites!!

Maybe there is something i dont see… can anyone explain this to me?


#6

Could you share your AMR’s string (from the addon) so we could take a look into it ?


#7

Look to the left of the gear table - not in your screenshot.

What order are your setups in that list? That is the order that matters for picking azerite traits on your gear. You are seeing Discipline traits chosen for Holy because you must have Discipline higher in that list than Holy.

For Shadow Priest traits, I am aware that Chorus of Insanity and Spiteful Apparition is the most popular build right now. Whispers of the Damned is also a very good trait (especially when paired with chorus of insanity). In the current raid tier, people really like the Spiteful Apparitions build because it is very friendly to movement. You can use the “customize” feature to push the optimizer towards the build you prefer.

The reason we added the “customize” feature is because there are many builds that can all do top tier damage. Top logs all trend towards one build - but that doesn’t prove there aren’t other builds that could be good too. Our optimizer will pick one of the top tier builds, but it doesn’t look at or care about popularity. If you want to run a build with Spiteful Apparitions, push the optimizer in that direction! Like I said, there are dozens of builds that could all give top level performance, assuming you can play them all equally well.

Also, there are very strong interactions between the Shadow Priest azerite traits. This make them very difficult to rank in the optimizer, so, there is a bit more “fuzz” in the recommendations. The recommendations we give by default will result in very good performance, but, there is no harm at all in using the customize feature to push the optimizer towards a different build.


#8

no whispers of the damned isnt good at all.
I wasted some gold and done itemization as ARM:
14k dps on dummy wihout any buffs
“most popular build now” - 15.6k dps on dummy wihout a buffs - ergo - ARM fails to deliver best solution possible.

as for itemization - sorted:


and guess what - still fails to deliver - still im losing to much mastery…
and everlasting light…
even when i play with customize as much as i want i never get:
1x word of mending, 2xLitany and 2xsanctura - just some funky setups…


#9

You would have to hit a dummy for a very long time to determine the difference between the two builds with any accuracy, that’s why we use simulators. We could compare the difference between the two builds with your available gear if you post your export string from the addon.

I can’t really say if this recommendation is good or bad without knowing what items you have available to you.

This setup looks pretty reasonable for Holy. The helmet has Word of Mending on it - the other choice on that ring isn’t going to be very good. The chest item you have a choice between everlasting light and another word of mending. Another word of mending is almost worthless, which the optimizer is aware of so it goes with everlasting light, which isn’t good either, but you don’t have good options on that ring. My guess is that your other items in that slot are lower item level.

I can tell you with total certainty that the Holy Priest recommendations work very well. And, once again, if you want a very specific azerite trait setup, just lock them in. Blessed Sanctuary isn’t really that good a trait, so it will not be favored much in the optimizations unless you tell it to do so.

It really sounds to me like you already have very specific ideas about what azerite traits you want to use. Maybe you should just force those traits and let the optimizer pick gear/stats around them?

The optimizer not picking what you think it should doesn’t mean the optimizer doesn’t work!


#10

String:

72;EU;Draenor;Marethia;Aphelion;14;2;120;40;10:150,15:36,12:38,13:101,4:143;2;.s1;22;3133333;.s2;23;1311333;.s3;24;3111111;.q1;158075s2b1546b3383b1b6;61s16b-3359b3209b17e5965;186s17b-3236b3219b223;905s9b-3427b3202b225;6s5b-3452b3229b627b29a277682a979a-14674a10379;10s8b-5401b1541b3202b223;216s12b-3430b3206b226e-22;1190s13b-3517b316b2978b13;2777s1b-3237b3213b11b339b274a4295a-11724a-2975a16;4s6b-3837b3224b340;2069s7b-3604b3264b13;4s10b-3292b301b2978b12x154127;9s15b-3291b3279b12;55s11b-3291b3279b12e-4;4s14b-3291b3279b12;351s3b-3276b3264b37b595a14683a-979a-10746;.q2;157905s1b1577b3198b11b628a275602a-2289a-5429a710a-4616;2s3b-3837b3198b11b629a11624a4808a-12521a-3927a16;168s2b-3865b3379b1b6;243s11b-3384b3234b216e5943;909s9b-3420b3202b225;8s8b-3437b3214b224;2s10b-3428b3201b227;2s6b-3448b3224b221;224s12b-3430b3206b19b208x154127e0;6005s7b-3493b3269b340;30s5b-3619b3268b11b36b591a14667a-5332a-5427a-3924a16;14s15b-3906b3279b12;57s13b-3291b301b2978b12x2;2s14b-3291b3279b12;16s16b-3291b3279b12e20;.q3;158075s2b1550b3379b1b6;1152s9b-3354b3202b225;6s5b-3452b3218b11b627b29a277682a979a-14674a-25a16;6s6b-3880b3224b221;4s8b-4966b1541b3202b223;220s11b-3430b3206b19b208x154127e5943;157s13b-3448b3224b221;5847s1b-3490b3269b340b291a11744a2937a-12479a2257;32s7b-3895b3264b13;4s10b-3292b301b2978b12x0;9s15b-3291b3279b12;55s12b-3291b3279b12e0;4s14b-3291b3279b12;11s17b-3276b3264b13;337s16b-3267b3251b16e20;3s3b-3277b3264b37b595a10224a-979a-10746a20781;.inv;6218;730;4343;3221;3213;3488;41;54;9995;7379;14328;16227;2380;1371;14411;21677;0;147;362;975;962;34;3907;41;764;2448;9934;175b739b737b1x137366y15p3p1455p337p14p0;2b-737b738b1x-64y-5011p-1806p661p800p26p319p0;41b-741;4946;3828;1726;824;1413;0;2180;7329;1398;1;28;1;1;1;32;0;1;0;2;52;8;29;207;1;1;173;1;387;41;221;1;1;2;1;5;3;2;405;1;1;1;1;1;39;1;540;176;1;0;0;0;0;0;0;2;1;0;0;0;4;8;1;0;1;939;692;1229;38;339b839b3209b17e5965;51;1;1;23;110b-3236b3219b223;49b-3457b3234b216e-2;7;501;37;211;106b-3445b3218b11b627b29a277682a979a-14674a-25a16;10b-5401b1541b3202b223;216b-3430b3206b226e-20;12;149b-3447b3224b221;32b-3435b3214b224;307;0;94;0;245;100;1;1;79;170b-3518b316b2978b13;2b-3307b3294b13;3b-3307b3294b13;55;2;1;23;318;0;291;681;433b-3222b3209b17;2;1;54;521;186;208b-3241b3224b340;50;218;3;1766b-3609b3269b340b291a11744a2937a-12479a2257;32b-3895b3264b13;4b-3292b301b2978b12x21821;62b-3276b286b2978b13x0e0;2b-3292b3279b12e0;15b-3276b3264b13;10b-3292b3279b12e20;111;216b-3266b3251b16e0;3b-3277b3264b37b595a10224a-979a-10746a20781;26;315;541;0;0


#11

For Holy, the optimizer is making good suggestions. None of the azerite traits for Holy are good enough that you’d want to reduce your item level to get them. The optimizer is increasing your item level, which is usually going to be best for a holy priest.

Assuming that Holy is your main spec and Shadow is your off spec, I see the optimizer picking chorus/spiteful on your shoulder item, which is what you would expect. Your helmet available is the Shadra Silk Headband, and it picks whispers/rezan’s, which also makes sense on that item. The optimizer picks whispers/rezan on your chest item, which is probably the choice you take issue with. You would want it to pick chorus/spiteful.

In this case, the theoretical DPS difference between those two choices is about 300 DPS. You would have to attack a target dummy perfectly like 50 times with each setup for 5 minutes a pop to really tell which set is better.

If you make Shadow your top priority spec, you’re probably still going to want to use the 390 shoulders because you can unlock the last trait and make them 395, only 5 ilvl below the Fur-Lined Amice. Overwhelming Power on the 390 shoulders is so much better than Azerite Globules that you won’t really miss the extra spiteful apparitions. Once again, the theoretical difference between what the optimize picks and manually editing the items to favor chorus/spiteful is only 300 dps.


#12

Hello
not it doesent gives good sugestions.
Here is my healing from tonight - this number can be reachde and this healing with high mastery, not low amstery like ARM wants me to:


and i dont even have to cast heal…


#13

I don’t think we’re communicating very well…

The gear suggestions for Holy Priest on our site try to get a lot of mastery. I’m not sure why you think that we’re suggesting not to get a lot of mastery.

The only reason you lose a little mastery with the BiB suggestions is because you can gain significant item level by doing so, which is almost always going to be a gain for a holy priest.


#14

im sorry but ilvl is acually not prio…

my itemization:
image

ARM sugestions:
image

gain - 80 intelect and 1 ilvl from ARM - l oses 10% of mastery and tons of haste
my gearing - using 3 different websites and wasting a lot of time - only ONE, ONE item lvl lover than ARM but my stats are much more better
ALSO ARM enchants/GEMS:

  • pure crit gems and enchants on rings
  • pure crit encahtn on weapon

i did not swaped azerites power as they do not increase any stats by flat ammount
Also i havent reenchant gems in second screen - so You can add arround 150 crit rating and remove arround 120 haste rating - again - WHY?

so again things which i want to udnerstand:
1. why ARM aims for crit>versa>mastery>haste instead of crit=mastery>haste>versa - does anyone udnerstand how mastery works for holy priest - its a main source of power and heals for holy.
2. why haste is so low for ARM? casting slower makes heals more potent?
3. why ARM fovorise ONE iitem level over better secondary stats?
as azerites powers are “fine” - you have no control over them - most of them are completley random - so why you favorise random procs from azerties instead of having proper secondary stats supported by some azerites
5. What StatsWeights are You using - its cleary not the wow community ones.


#15

We use our healing simulator, which models a very realistic fight. Stat weights are a really old-school way to think about gearing. There are lots of setups with high crit, vers, and/or mastery that would all work very well for a holy priest. The optimizer uses your gear to get you to one of those optimal solutions.

You can read about the simulator here:

I main a holy priest. I use the recommendations from the website exactly as they are and I put out insane amounts of healing.

I know that our recommendations can seem “off meta” sometimes, but that’s ok, it’s just a different way of figuring out good gear to use. If you don’t want to try it, that’s totally up to you.


#16

Also don’t forget the “customize” tab where you can push the optimizer to favor mastery higher than other stats.


#17

Maab,

Not sure why you are arguing for haste when it is the worst stat for Holy Priests. Priority should be mastery > crit >vers > haste

I’m not sure why you are having trouble with AMR recommendations and what it is doing to your haste. Works fine for my Priest who has around 55% mastery.


#18

I think you’re misunderstanding what you’re being told.

The robot does not use simple stat weights to choose gear, it’s using a much more advanced method to recommend gear.
You’re assuming the advice you get from other sources is better than the simulator results, that’s your choice but really it seems you’re swayed by popularity/group think more than simulated results.

If you’ve healed for long enough you know that how you play is more important that whatever someone on the internet tells you about secondary stats, also how well your raid plays matters too. If the tanks don’t press the right buttons or the DPS don’t avoid the avoidable damage it’s irrelevant what gear you’ve got, they’re going to die.

I suggest you try what the robot suggests and see how it goes instead of assuming it won’t work.

PS. It’s AMR - Ask Mr Robot, not ARM. That would be a RISC architecture used in most phones.


#19

i dont know what the issue was but tooday when i did arm again - all was good.
and true - haste is weakes stat - mistake on my side

looks like itemization is back on good tracks.


#20

lol, you changed the prioritization