Why does it keep recommending an inferior object?


#1

Ok I am wearing Shoulder 405 Seafarer Shoulderpads
but Mr.Robot keeps recommending another that is worse in every aspect…
390 Ma’ra’s Boneblade Mantle

This is the only object it recommends that I change right now…
I don’t understand the logic. If that’s the only object, shouldn’t it try to maximize the stats?


#2

Compare the same shoulders on Raidbots and see what it says. AMR has been suspect for me lately. It tells me my best two trinkets are “On use” trinkets. It is never correct to use two on use and I have multiple trinkets above ilvl 400. After running the sims on Raidbots it confirms my suspicions and the trinkets I have on are indeed correct.


#3

On Azerite items (i.e. Head, Shoulders and Chest) flat stats are often less important than the Azerite traits. This may cause items of lower item level to be stronger if you can then get stronger traits.

As this depends completely on your class and spec it’s impossible to give specific advice without more info. Which class and spec are you using? And could you add your addon export string so it’s possible to take a closer look at that?

That’s not necessarily correct. Depending on which trinkets you own and how they are used it might not be wrong to use two on use trinkets. Using both in the correct order or situation might not be as trivial as using only one but that doesn’t mean it’s bad.

AMR and SimulationCraft are also using completely different simulators which may always cause minor but overall negligible differences as long as your using similar settings.
Generally speaking, the default settings on Raidbots simulate a “Patchwerk” encounter (i.e. no mechanics, no adds, just standing still and pressing dps buttons) while AMR’s Gearing Strategies are using a more realistic fight (like Grong iirc).


#4

Most, if not all, classes gain a big dps increase by lining up cooldowns. This includes trinkets. At the same time you do not want to hold any cooldown for very long or it is a dps loss. Not being able to use your second on use trinket is a dps loss over a similar ilvl proc trinket. I main a rogue and have spoken directly with a primary theory crafter. It is not correct to use what AMR is recommending.


#5

@asashdor gave a very good answer to the general situations presented – without any more specific information about a particular player’s case, he is absolutely correct.

It is better to go to specifics than to try arguing from generalizations, particularly when the generalizations don’t match up very well (i.e. comparing a case with two on-use trinkets to a case with azerite gear, like what happened here). So let’s get some actual setups here and see what’s going on for real:

@feaver If you would like to give me a specific case where you think the optimizer is recommending two on-use trinkets when you have another alternative that would be better, we are more than happy to look at it in detail. Post your export string that you copy from the in-game addon to the website, and we can reproduce your case.

The optimizer does have corrections for using two on-use trinkets together: it does tend to reduce the value a bit, though sometimes not enough to make one of your other trinkets better. When you post your case, we can take a look and see what’s up – maybe one of the corrections needs adjusting, or maybe it just is what it is and you should give it a try.

@tkalfaoglu if you want to do the same thing: post the export string that you copy from the in-game addon to the website, we can look at your specific case and see why it would recommend a lower item level azerite trait in your specific case. Most likely, your higher ilvl item has a weak trait and/or your lower ilvl item has a strong trait.


#6

Many thanks… Here is my gear…

76;EU;Bronze Dragonflight;Getafixx;Wings Of The Valkyrie;6;1;120;49;10:150,15:4,12:150,8:150,13:118;4;.s1;6;1232332;.s2;7;;.s3;8;1312311;.s4;9;1133231;.q1;155884s15b40b1527b3219b16b206x154129;2095s3b-3416b3183b11b632a279778a-5346a-6550a718a-4622;27s5b-3841b3198b11b627a15664a136a-11892a713a-4621;69s2b-3847b3363b7b878;1247s7b-5771b1529b3211b226;22s10b-3437b3214b224;287s13b-3433b3206b226;5s16b-3437b3211b224e5964;2905s12b-3440b3219b223e-20;3s11b-3432b3206b226e0;2899s1b-3492b3258b11b340b291a14537a-2a-10631a555a-4459;3s6b-3900b3269b16b324x-2;1s9b-3609b3269b16b324x2;73s8b-3599b3256b16;58s14b-3277b286b2978b13x-1;.q3;155884s15b40b1527b3219b16b206x154129;2097s9b-3431b3209b16b1x0;25s5b-3226b3198b11b627a279642a136a-11892a714a-4622;69s2b-3849b3365b7b878;1247s7b-5771b1529b3211b226;22s10b-3437b3214b224;287s13b-3433b3206b226;5s16b-3437b3211b224e5964;2905s11b-3440b3219b223e-20;3s12b-3432b3206b226e0;2899s1b-3492b3258b11b340b291a14537a-2a-10631a555a-4459;3s6b-3900b3269b16b324x-2;74s8b-3599b3256b16;58s14b-3277b286b2978b13x1;199s3b-3292b3268b11b36b593a23273a1702a-21073a716a-4618;.q4;155884s15b40b1527b3219b16b206x154129;2095s3b-3416b3183b11b632a279778a2063a-13959a718a-4622;27s5b-3841b3198b11b627a15664a136a-11892a713a-4621;69s2b-3845b3361b7b878;1247s7b-5771b1529b3211b226;22s10b-3437b3214b224;287s13b-3433b3206b226;5s16b-3437b3211b224e5964;2905s11b-3440b3219b223e-20;3s12b-3432b3206b226e0;2899s1b-3492b3258b11b340b291a14537a-2a-10631a555a-4459;3s6b-3900b3269b16b324x-2;1s9b-3609b3269b16b324x2;73s8b-3599b3256b16;58s14b-3277b286b2978b13x-1;.inv;785;1664;1;3;225;680;463;517;269;1682;2;17;57;583;2004;343;991;859;63;2286;7;19;2728;2;4;780;5509;384;10520;11603;7157;19612;7043;3;3;6;10238;770;8833;10281;141;0;2;1;2;1418;51;844;0;0;0;101;1;32;6;56;14;3;6;1;1587;326;1936;1967;516;915;2023;1569;1610;4182b725b765b2b2x152051y-10z3813p1457p2071p85q-2141q1865q276r-2146r2061r85;47;468b-770;37b-2b767b1b3x-8775y-2621z6548p-2130p1853p237q-2071q2026q45r-2031r1794r60;2b-770b764x-10926p-1901p1842;9251;666;1415;1413;2565v120b3986;260;8065;0;17;1;0;28;0;1;0;1;1;1;1;2;0;0;13;0;15;1;2;0;52;0;8;29;0;207;828;461;0;1;0;557;0;175;2;0;0;0;0;1626;1272;212b-3881b3194b631;179;174b-3840b3206b226;4b-3437b3211b224e5944;12;1409;172;94;0;1;5;0;155b-3435b3211b225;84;0;102;309;2;1;341;1235;1;171;1;54;511;1;9;181;5;2301b-3486b3264b37b595;69b-3896b3264b13;111;0;74b-3292b3268b11b36b593a287251a1702a-21073a716a-4618;171;0;497;269;90;1325;1;8


#7

Btw, Pawn and AMR have never agreed on what was best…

I just started using healer stat weights addon to export string to pawn… that seems more accurate than pawns own weights


#8

One thing to bear in mind - AMR allows for dynamic stat weighting to achieve a best end result, where other options work on a ‘fixed/inflexible stat priority’.

I’ve said many times, on here, that if you approach any sites’ recommendations - that’s all they are, basically - as a ‘you must do this’, then you’re doing it wrong… AMR makes suggestions of what stuff in your bags you should equip, to be added to a pool of knowledge and either used or rejected.

Query the results, sure… but no one site is categorically right and any thinking that they are should be discouraged.
HOW you query the results has a bearing on the response you’ll get to your query, too…


#9

I am always trying to make the point that there are really dozens or even hundreds of different builds that can be considered “top-tier” in WoW. Our guarantee is that we will always recommend you one of those top-tier setups. We have no way to promise it will be your favorite one, or the most popular one. We can only promise that if you use the recommendation and are able to play it optimally, you will have great results.

I agree with @eighjan that it is not good to think about different sources of WoW info as “right” and “wrong” - think of them as opinions and different approaches to finding a solution to the gearing problem. You’ll probably be fine no matter which source you use. AMR has the advantage of being extremely user friendly/convenient and unbiased by human emotion.

The customize feature is there and meant to be used to push the recommendations towards your preferences if you want to add in that “human” component to the suggestions. It is not wrong to tell the optimizer that you just like a certain trait or stat.


#10

Thanks for your info – in this specific case, I think that the value for the Early Harvest trait using the Mythic+ gearing strategy ended up too high… I’ll adjust that, and we’ll see what it recommends.

That aside – it certainly is possible for azerite traits to make an azerite item that is 15 ilvls lower better sometimes. It is rare, but not that rare – you will see it happen from time to time.


#11

Has a monk healer main in Mythic difficulty (currently have clear Jaina and Ghunn MM), i suggest you to use AMR over Pawn and healer stat weights.
I have multiple reason for that one is:
If you spend time to think about “Gearing” and “Stat weight” it’s time you dont spend thinking during progress on “When should i use this CD” “What i need to focus on” etc…


#12

Many thanks. I have another case…
The Optimize recommended that I put on the 390 gravethorn jerkin, but the Simulate found that I should wear 405 seafarers vest…

76;EU;Bronze Dragonflight;Getafixx;Wings Of The Valkyrie;6;1;120;50;10:150,15:4,12:150,8:150,13:126;1;.s1;6;1232332;.s2;7;;.s3;8;1312311;.s4;9;1133231;.q1;155889s10b1567b3219b16b206x154129;2085s5b-3416b3183b11b630a279778a-1265a-10629a553a-4459;37s3b-3824b3183b11b632a15800a-5955a-5940a-3921a16;64s2b-3848b3359b7b878;1213s15b-4242b3214b16b208x0;9s7b-3438b3214b224;334s13b-3433b3206b226;5s16b-3437b3211b224e5964;2905s11b-3440b3219b223e-20;2902s1b-3492b3258b11b340b291a14537a-2a-10631a555a-4459;3s6b-3900b3269b16b324x-2;1s9b-3609b3269b16b324x2;73s8b-3599b3256b16;45s12b-3277b3264b13;13s14b-3277b286b2978b13x-1;.q3;155884s15b40b1527b3219b16b206x154129;2097s9b-3431b3209b16b1x0;25s5b-3226b3198b11b627a279642a136a-11892a714a-4622;69s2b-3849b3365b7b878;1247s7b-5771b1529b3211b226;22s10b-3437b3214b224;287s13b-3433b3206b226;5s16b-3437b3211b224e5964;2905s11b-3440b3219b223e-20;3s12b-3432b3206b226e0;2899s1b-3492b3258b11b340b291a14537a-2a-10631a555a-4459;3s6b-3900b3269b16b324x-2;74s8b-3599b3256b16;58s14b-3277b286b2978b13x1;199s3b-3292b3268b11b36b593a23273a1702a-21073a716a-4618;.q4;155889s10b1567b3219b16b206x154129;2085s5b-3416b3183b11b630a279778a-1265a-10629a553a-4459;37s3b-3824b3183b11b632a15800a-5955a-5940a-3921a16;64s2b-3848b3359b7b878;1213s15b-4242b3214b16b208x0;9s7b-3438b3214b224;334s13b-3433b3206b226;5s16b-3437b3211b224e5964;2905s11b-3440b3219b223e-20;2902s1b-3492b3258b11b340b291a14537a-2a-10631a555a-4459;3s6b-3900b3269b16b324x-2;1s9b-3609b3269b16b324x2;73s8b-3599b3256b16;45s12b-3277b3264b13;13s14b-3277b286b2978b13x-1;.inv;785;1664;1;3;225;680;463;517;269;1682;2;17;57;583;2004;343;991;859;63;2286;7;19;2728;2;4;780;5509;384;10520;11603;7157;19612;7043;3;3;6;10238;770;8833;10281;141;0;2;1;2;80;703v120b5473;635;51;844;0;0;0;101;1;32;6;56;14;3;6;1;1587;326;1936;1967;516;915;2023;1569;1610;4182b-4748b765b2b2x152051y-10z3813p1457p2071p85q-2141q1865q276r-2146r2061r85;47;468b-770;37b-2b767b1b3x-8775y-2621z6548p-2130p1853p237q-2071q2026q45r-2031r1794r60;2b-770b764x-10926p-1901p1842;9251;666;1415;1413;2565v0b3986;260;8065;17;1;28;1;1;1;1;1;2;0;0;13;0;15;0;1;2;52;0;0;8;29;0;207;828;426;35;1;557;120v0b-3777b3100;21v0b-3114b3114b6;25;0;0;0;9;1;0;1;0;0;0;0;939;31b-3220b3201b227;656;1272;86b-3448b3224b626;59b-3850b3224b624;32b-3818b3194b630;1b-3864b3233b18;4b-3211b3183b11b632a279778a2063a-13959a718a-4622;27b-3841b3198b11b627a15664a136a-11892a713a-4621;3b-3851b3224b625;0b-3819b3183b11b631a15664a-5819a-5944a715a-4616;90b-3825b3191b20;279;914b-3221b3201b227;20b-3438b3214b224;10b-4967b1529b3211b226;22b-3437b3214b224;135v0b-3294b3080;480;94;0;0;6;0;78v0b-3085b3085;77b-3224b3211b225;84;102;309;0;2;1;341;291;944;1;171;55;29b-3431b3206b226e5944;27;10;445;10;181;5;125b-3447b3224b339;128;898;1150b-3603b3253b11b37b595a14537a1263a-11892a-3924a16;180;245;346;151;359;11;184;922;208;9;1


#13

Ahem the same issue with my main hand…

here is a comparison of my two weapons… AMR recommended the second one…

results of the simulation:

Main Hand
18238 Stagheart Poleaxe

18111 Staff of the Lightning Serpent