Glimmer Pally and AMR: No haste weight by default?

#1

Just opening up a general discussion on the topic. I’m really interested in bettering myself with Holy Pally and I see that many guides reference Haste as the much needed stat for the class.

I noticed an oddity though. While AMR recommends the glimmer traits, I don’t think it “know” how it needs to be played. It could be an issue with the complexity of the mechanics involved. Im making this bold claim because I feel like in Mythic + settings its telling me overly stack Crit. When I set the overrides, it just feels like it’s not putting proper logic into the choices. So I’m torn. Shouldnt it be at default recommending haste? I shouldn’t have to force it?

I do notice that setting the healing type to raid makes a difference but I just want the right story for Glimmerdin. Recommendations feel wildly different. I’m a little undergeared too so that could be it as well.

Thoughts and tips?

#2

I’m having the exact same problem with Unholy DK, which is supposed to favor Haste over other stats but AMR is suggesting Crit gem/enchants instead of Haste.

#3

Hiya, this is something the guys have been working on. Currently, what works best for me is just use the customize feature to spec into haste gear.
Unfortunately this doesn’t cover the best in slot or upgrade finder but it gets gear results pretty close to what the top guys are doing :slight_smile:

#4

Hey, as long as its on the radar or in progress.
Using the customize feature just feels sorta off. Could be that I dont fully understand it. If I customize haste, will it forgo EVERYTHING just to give me more haste. I notice my weapon is still mastery so maybe is does understand some efficiency. Just wanna make educated decisions you know? AMR is the only tool for recommended gear for healers it would seem

#5

Yeah i’m in the same boat, there certainly aren’t other options and Mr Robot is fantastic for pretty much everything else - but we mentioned the issue a few weeks ago and they have been super active in finding a solution. If you want to follow the previous threads:


#6

In the case of the glimmer build - I really think the optimizer is working well right now. I know that if you check other sources of information they will all tell you to stack haste, haste, and more haste… but I really don’t think that is necessarily or even truly optimal from a numbers perspective.

The optimizer does recognize Haste as a good stat and gets a lot of it, but stacking it too much to the exclusion of other stats isn’t really going to get you maximum output, based on the tests I’ve done. We’re the only people using a simulator to test healing builds, fwiw. Other theorycrafters will tell you that you can’t sim healers, but I’d argue that we’ve created a simulation for healers that actually does a very good job of approximating the game enough to get actionable advice. That is generally why you will see our recommendations for stats differ from other sources.

I have updated the simulator to play the glimmer build how people are generally playing it in both the mythic+ and raid healing script, so I feel good about the stat recommendations that are a result of those simulations.

All that being said, haste for healers is a highly subjective stat. Some people just really want a lot of haste to feel more responsive. That’s ok! We created the customize feature for this very reason. You don’t have to worry that using the customize feature will result in a very sub-optimal result. This is why we group the options into “tiers” - anything in Tier 1 will be functionally equivalent in output - you can’t play the game enough to really notice. Anything in Tier 2 will still be very good, but you might be able to notice a difference in output even with the amount of trials a human can do. Tier 3 is viable, but probably what most people would consider “casual” as far as output goes.

#7

If you want to start a new thread for Unholy issues and post your export string from the addon, I’d be happy to take a look at your case.

#8

Out of interest could the discrepancy between the sim and the haste build be down to how Mr Robot highly values hpally mastery? Since that is a huge variable from the game to a simulator…and it’s mastery that the gear adviser is focused on by default even though stacking is hard to guarentee

#9

Yes, that’s a possibility. I have the simulator set up to have the holy paladin heavily favoring melee allies in a 20 man raid setting. The thought being that you should try to make that happen in raids, as a team.

If that’s not a reality for you, pushing the optimizer a bit away from mastery makes sense.

#10

I really appreciate the detail you put into this reply. Happy to see everything is going smoothly from your point of view.

I know you guys can only put so much on the label so to speak (like you cant write or generate a rationale for everything the sim does) but understanding the tiers and your approach on haste gives me a lot to work with. Its not like you can flip a switch with AMR to be like “Glimmer build” which is what made me stir crazy with the build too. With anything, there are so many variables so its cool to know youre keeping on top of it all. Thanks again and have a great day!

#11

Hi guys, coming into this as a newbie and first time poster on the forum.

My M 8/6 EP guild is requiring me to stack a lot more haste (I’m currently 20%!) and AMR is not really weighing in haste as much as it needs to for Glimmer build. That being said, is there a step by step guide to help me on customizing the stats to help me find Best in Bag & potential upgrades in +10 for haste priority?

This is my current stat priority: Haste > Crit > Mastery > Vers

Really need help as I’ve supported & donated a lot to AMR :heart_eyes:

Thanks

#12

If you click on “customize” in the Best in Bag section of the site, you can use the checkbox to customize stats. Use the sliders to set them however you want.

There is a tutorial link too at the top of Best in Bag.

Also, it’s crazy for a guild to require you to gear a certain way. Stacking more haste isn’t strictly better from a pure numbers perspective. Some people just like how it feels because you can be more responsive.

#13

With the customize stats area, what do you recommend for my stat priority I given above? Or what is the best way to figure out how much weigh I should put?

Is there a way to do this for upgrade finder?

#14

Your preferences set in that section will also apply to the upgrade finder when you have that Best in Bags setup chosen.

Just play with the sizes of each piece of the pie until you like the stat balance that you see on your gear – there isn’t really one “right” answer. Start with haste really big, and tweak it from there.

#15

What do you put your Azerite Threshold too?

#16

It depends on how important you think the trait is… if you absolutely must have that trait, you could go as low as -30 or even -45 (we let you go even lower than that… but it would be rare that you’d need a rule that extreme). -15 is decent for traits that you think are good but not insane. For traits that you have a slight preference for but that probably aren’t that much stronger than others, you could go higher like -10 or -5.

#17

So I setup my stat weigh as follow:
2120 Haste
1080 Crit
60 Mastery
200 Vers

Thoughts? This is for a Haste > Crit > Mastery > Vers build for Glimm. I want to go 40-50% Haste.

#18

Really late to the party here, but this is the area I was stuck at for ages until the fantastic AMR guys came to the rescue. Just a heads up, you don’t need as much haste as you think you do. If you look at the guys getting top hpally logs you want to be aiming for around 2k haste on AMR, and then vers is much more valuable than crit from what I’ve been seeing.

I’ve got mine set to 2040 haste -> 1000k vers -> 480 crit -> 480 mast

This tends to leave you with plenty of haste (espeicially if you force all gems + enchants to be haste as well)