Does the simulation take the new rings into effect


I just got one of the new talent rings and was wondering if the simulations run with the talent you have selected + the talent from the ring or that is not implemented yet?


Yes – it will active the talent if you have the ring, and also the other talent you choose.


Mmmm, but something sounds way wrong. Just got Soul of the Archmage (my luck to get it before it becomes a 970, grrr). Unless one can NOT equip 2 different legendary rings (never read about that) looked for sure it would be hugely useful for my Frost Mage. Odd, BiB says to stick with my current gear. Doing a ranked list on my non legendary ring showed the soul in 164th place BELOW! That was at 970, at the 940 it is 167 places below. Level 800 & 830 rings show BETTER then the Soul ring.

I’m sorry, but just no, no no, in no universe can this be correct. Yeah, I DO have to give up another legendary (Lady Vasj’s Grasp), but that item has NO socket, only small amounts of 2 secondary stats and it’s proc is IDEALLY 2 extra FoFs during Icy Veins. Vs. 40% increased chance for a FoF proc for the entire duration of the fight? Please yellow, tell me something is very wrong here…


I would need your addon export to see what you are seeing.


LadyVashj’s Grasp was one of the strongest legendaries for the Frost Thermal Void build that was played almost exclusively in 7.2, I assume the value has been nerfed a bit with the TV changes, but I would still expect it to be a very strong contender. The lack of a socket and different stats on the Gloves is likely vastly outweighed by the raw intellect.

I’m not saying there’s not something wrong going on with the ranking per se, but I would not expect the ring be better than the gloves. Did you try locking in the legendaries you think are best and comparing simulation output?


I play GS build. I find it a lot more fun to play, I’m not a mythic raider, decent but nothing special heroic. GS should be more competitive with TV in 7.2.5. I’ll post the string later yellow. I have a decent set of gloves to replace the legendary ones.

Are you overlooking that with the Soul ring I can have both Splitting Ice AND Frozen Touch? That could easily give me whatever extra FoF the gloves do, AND provide a lot more secondary stats (3 secondaries and a socket!).


We have the new rings that give talents modeled in the simulator and also ranked. If you think there is something going on with the best-in-bags optimization, post an addon export and we can take a look.


$51;US;Durotan;Brightbrown;Novare Res;5;1;110;13:786,15:800,11:800,3:800,14:800,12:800;3;.s1;13;0000000;;;;.s2;14;1132121;748,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,577,32;1,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,12;141261b1517b3337b3473,140812b1467b1813b3443,146927;.s3;15;2233122;783,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,498,77,164,1,1,1,101;1,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,4,1,1,7,1;147757b1467b3336b3573,140827b1487b3336b3444,142515b1502b3337b3467;.q1;128820s16b730x141261y-449z6115;3590s12b1081b1719x-16707e5428;1s10b-1719b1644;1548s17;4356s7b-1983b2042b14;50s15b-2041b2029b12e8;967s2b-2041b318b3x28e454;1516s5b-331b1859b107;1s6b-1961b1962b84;5s8b-2041b1849b108;57s3b-1947b1840b177e-448;571s13b-2042b1994;54s14b-1974b316b1529b129x-28;6195s1b-1984b2046b44;4s9b-2085b1849b236;31s11b-2090b2046b44e-14;.q2;128820s16b730x141261y-449z6115;3590s12b1081b1719x-16707e5428;1s10b-1719b1644;1548s17;4356s7b-1983b2042b14;50s15b-2041b2029b12e8;967s2b-2041b318b3x28e454;1516s5b-331b1859b107;1s6b-1961b1962b84;5s8b-2041b1849b108;57s3b-1947b1840b177e-448;571s13b-2042b1994;54s14b-1974b316b1529b129x-28;6195s1b-1984b2046b44;4s9b-2085b1849b236;31s11b-2090b2046b44e-14;.q3;128862s16b731x147757y-6930z1688;3548s12b1080b1719x-12267e5428;1s10b-1719b1644;5904s7b-1983b2042b14;50s15b-2041b2029b12e8;2483s5b-2051b1859b107;1s6b-1961b1962b84;5s8b-2041b1849b108;57s3b-1947b1840b177e6;571s13b-2042b1994;54s14b-1974b316b1529b129x-28;6195s1b-1984b2046b44;4s9b-2085b1849b236;30s2b-2090b2046b44e448;1s11b-2090b2046b44e-462;.r;_;.inv;2459;496;416;104;348;0;0;216;2224;394;0;0;0;5;0;171;2;113;1581;0;1511;7162;0;3195;1;1;10;1;1;3;555;131;113;311;1;16;665;1118;263;4999;1708;515;488;369;674;707;245;1391;2;595;277;0;3020;105;6110;8;310;146;357;100;277;2;358;375;2574;4;12;3;1;3;2;4;1;4;2463;12603;4811;1713;160;58;12;137;344;7470;1409;177;365;691;339f138;3888;170;282;122;19;3;830;0;211;169;0;596;335;414;72;619;67;136;24;1835;0;798;3;725;885;1059;79;65;164u467;2u0;3495u38;1u0;7u0;1u0;2516;569u0x115803e5281;1865;182;4;19;0;30;60;461u-14;13u0;4116;80;0;47;4;0;2;0;11;3;1;11;29;0;415;0;0;692;269;1260;270;0;1171;1553u40b137b400b81;1452;5;0;101b-577;43;14;0;13;206;200;3;2;1;0;543;1;93;900;0;185;0;0;598u-2b482b1;1985v110b1189b99;164b-300b1824b138;961;64;1570;181;0;0;0;2;0;0;1;0;1;0;1;0;1;0;1;0;1;0;1;0;0;1;0;1;0;0;1;0;1;0;5;0;1;0;1;0;1;0;1;0;3;0;0;0;0;0;0;0;14u2b-1972b297e29;10u0b-1232;5u0b-5b3b2x11957;4u-2b-1;0;3u2b921b311;5u0b-1232;6u0b-2b2x0;6u0b-5b5;23u0b-5b5;29u0b-5b5;153u0b-5b5e27;55;0;0;0;1;0;1;0;1;0;1;1;74u0b-524b1445b311;119b-1157b8e-12;5;0;3194;0;1;1;2;2;7;144;53u-2;144;30;86;0;10;6;33;12;117;20;5;3;310b81x13501y-449z6115;338;126;1;2;1;1;1614;0;1;0;1;0;812;26;1;487;213b1081b1644;8b-1644b1718b1;3b-71b71;1111;0;0;0;0;0;5;6;0;0;0;0;11;1;1;1;1;1;0;14;73;0;37;3;220;30b-71b71;7b-1719b1718b1;227b-2927b929b1805b137;56b-1937b190b81b1528;131b-1804b1804b80;1b-1864b1785b76;13b-1881b1882b114;15b-1981b261b1529b78;1922;311;1;107b-1873b282b1513;543b-1810b200b1609;56b-1804b1882b114;12b-1986b1795b76;739;4;25b-1602b1644;84b-1968b318;85b-318b2029b12;3b-2051b1859b178;6b-2042b341b1701;3b-2037b1859b178;460;102;84;0;0;208;0;16b-2022b313b1531e557;45b-1829b298b1532e-455;3b-1840b308b1531;20b-1849b318b1723;62b-2036b313b3b1528;2b-1839b308b3b1528x-16679;9b-1849b318b3x0e463;467;2;1;11;1;29;2;1;54;138;5b-291b307b1704;149;22;357;1;1;8;1;5;0;0;0;0;0;0;0;0;0;0;0;205b-2061b346b1630;6b-1971b2042b14;2b-2056b336b5b1701;1b-2037b1860b183;3b-2048b2042b14;0b-2056b341b1701;5b-2037b2038b13;3b-2061b1870b109;40b-1969b1859b178;3b-2027b2029b12;31b-2056b2042b14;1b-2051b1859b178;1b-2032b1855b106;0b-1946b1840b107;6b-1962b1962b84;1b-2056b336b5b1701;1b-2022b1844b180e-463;2b-2034b1962b84;0b-2056b1864b107;1b-1951b316b1528b180;7b-2044b336b5b1701;0b-3473b1441b1854b178;4b-2042b2042b14;4b-2051b336b1702;85;1;13;2;9;0;255b-1998b307b1704;45;27;95;159;47;57;0;408;218;0;1;0;4;66;101b-2921b890b311b1699b21;37;1069;48;40b-2006b302b1512;151;407b-1525b1718b1;1b-1719b1719;141b-2058b336b1528b107x-29e9;69b-1896b1790b78;5b-3375b1497b1799b76;5b-1875b1799b76;2277;10b-1875b287b1513;9b-1805b1804b58;11b-1862b1804b58;1b-3352b1495b271b1529b57;79b-1862b293b1512;15b-1785b1785b57e6;40;354b-2789b1057b1675b237;0b-2971b1059b1675b237;79;65;148;139;3935b-1763b1719$


I loaded your export, ran best-in-bags, it increases your simulated DPS for single target by quite a bit:

your gear: 838k DPS

best-in-bags: 852k DPS

What specifically was the problem? If I try locking in the two legendaries you suggest (rings), it simulates to lower damage: 815k DPS

So the optimizer is following the simulation results correctly, which is what it is supposed to do. Do you think those simulation results are incorrect? Is there something in the simulation itself that looks off to you?


Problem #1 is that the gear you show in your second simulation BiB did NOT give me… as equipped, BiB said the gear I was wearing was the best possible, there were no changes indicated. Your BiB shows me awapping in the legendary bracers, something I have never, ever seen BiB suggest. Why would you see something so different than what I am seeing?

Tonight I picked up a heroic tier chest and now BiB essentially tells me to equip the chest & heroic tier shoulders, so given one new piece of equipment, we’re on another gear set. This one also has me keeping the Lady Vash and not using the Soul ring. Going with the BiB I am now seeing kinda has me scratching my head because it takes crit and hast and gives back mastery & vers. Simmed them both and the difference was minor, 823,361 vs 824,504. Tomorrow I’ll play with locking the rings as you did… it’s late and 3 hours of raiding knocks me out a bit.

Here is the import that got me this result:
$51;US;Durotan;Brightbrown;Novare Res;5;1;110;13:786,15:800,11:800,3:800,14:800,12:800;3;.s1;13;0000000;;;;.s2;14;1132121;748,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,577,32;1,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,12;141261b1517b3337b3473,140812b1467b1813b3443,146927;.s3;15;2233122;783,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,498,77,164,1,1,1,101;1,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,4,1,1,7,1;147757b1467b3336b3573,140827b1487b3336b3444,142515b1502b3337b3467;.q1;128820s16b730x141261y-449z6115;3590s12b1081b1719x-16707e5428;1s10b-1719b1644;1548s17;4356s7b-1983b2042b14;50s15b-2041b2029b12e8;967s2b-2041b318b3x28e454;1516s5b-331b1859b107;1s6b-1961b1962b84;5s8b-2041b1849b108;57s3b-1947b1840b177e-448;571s13b-2042b1994;54s14b-1974b316b1529b129x-28;6195s1b-1984b2046b44;4s9b-2085b1849b236;31s11b-2090b2046b44e-14;.q2;128820s16b730x141261y-449z6115;3590s12b1081b1719x-16707e5428;1s10b-1719b1644;1548s17;4356s7b-1983b2042b14;50s15b-2041b2029b12e8;967s2b-2041b318b3x28e454;1516s5b-331b1859b107;1s6b-1961b1962b84;5s8b-2041b1849b108;57s3b-1947b1840b177e-448;571s13b-2042b1994;54s14b-1974b316b1529b129x-28;6195s1b-1984b2046b44;4s9b-2085b1849b236;31s11b-2090b2046b44e-14;.q3;128862s16b731x147757y-6930z1688;3548s12b1080b1719x-12267e5428;1s10b-1719b1644;5904s7b-1983b2042b14;50s15b-2041b2029b12e8;2483s5b-2051b1859b107;1s6b-1961b1962b84;5s8b-2041b1849b108;57s3b-1947b1840b177e6;571s13b-2042b1994;54s14b-1974b316b1529b129x-28;6195s1b-1984b2046b44;4s9b-2085b1849b236;30s2b-2090b2046b44e448;1s11b-2090b2046b44e-462;.r;_;.inv;2459;496;416;104;348;0;0;216;1473;751;394;0;0;0;5;0;171;2;113;1581;0;1511;7162;0;3195;1;1;10;1;1;3;555;131;113;311;1;16;665;1118;263;4999;1708;515;488;369;674;707;245;1391;2;595;277;0;3020;105;6110;8;310;146;357;100;277;2;358;375;2574;4;12;3;1;3;2;4;1;4;2463;12603;4811;1713;160;58;12;137;344;7470;1409;177;365;691;339f138;3888;170;282;122;19;3;830;0;211;169;0;596;335;414;72;619;67;136;24;1835;0;798;3;725;885;1059;79;65;164u467;2u0;3495u38;1u0;7u0;1u0;2516;569u0x115803e5281;1865;182;4;19;0;30;60;461u-14;13u0;4116;80;0;47;4;0;2;0;11;3;1;11;29;0;415;0;0;692;269;1260;270;0;1171;248;1305u40b137b400b81;1452;5;0;101b-577;43;14;0;13;206;200;3;2;1;0;543;1;93;900;0;185;0;0;598u-2b482b1;2149b988b1824b138;961;64;1570;181;0;0;0;2;0;1;0;1;0;1;0;1;0;1;0;1;0;1;0;1;0;1;0;1;0;1;0;5;0;1;0;1;0;1;0;0;1;0;3;0;0;0;0;0;0;0;14u2b-1972b297e29;10u0b-1232;5u0b-5b3b2x11957;4u-2b-1;0;3u2b921b311;5u0b-1232;6u0b-2b2x0;6u0b-5b5;23u0b-5b5;29u0b-5b5;153u0b-5b5e27;55;0;0;0;1;0;1;0;1;0;1;1;74u0b-524b1445b311;119b-1157b8e-12;5;0;3194;0;1;1;2;2;7;11;133;53u-2;144;30;86;0;10;6;33;12;117;20;5;3;310b81x13501y-449z6115;338;126;1;2;1;1;1614;0;1;0;1;0;812;26;1;700b1081b1644;8b-1644b1718b1;3b-71b71;1111;0;0;0;0;0;5;6;0;0;0;0;11;1;1;1;1;1;0;14;73;0;37;3;220;30b-71b71;7b-1719b1718b1;227b-2927b929b1805b137;56b-1937b190b81b1528;131b-1804b1804b80;1b-1864b1785b76;13b-1881b1882b114;15b-1981b261b1529b78;1922;311;1;107b-1873b282b1513;543b-1810b200b1609;56b-1804b1882b114;12b-1986b1795b76;739;4;25b-1602b1644;84b-1968b318;85b-318b2029b12;3b-2051b1859b178;6b-2022b1844b180;0b-2044b341b1701;3b-2037b1859b178;562;84;0;0;208;0;16b-2022b313b1531e557;45b-1829b298b1532e-455;3b-1840b308b1531;20b-1849b318b1723;62b-2036b313b3b1528;2b-1839b308b3b1528x-16679;9b-1849b318b3x0e463;467;2;1;11;1;29;2;1;54;138;5b-291b307b1704;149;22;357;1;1;8;1;5;0;0;0;0;0;0;0;0;0;0;0;205b-2061b346b1630;6b-1971b2042b14;2b-2056b336b5b1701;1b-2037b1860b183;3b-2048b2042b14;0b-2056b341b1701;5b-2037b2038b13;3b-2061b1870b109;40b-1969b1859b178;3b-2027b2029b12;31b-2056b2042b14;1b-2051b1859b178;1b-2032b1855b106;0b-1946b1840b107;6b-1962b1962b84;1b-2056b336b5b1701;1b-2022b1844b180e-463;2b-2034b1962b84;0b-2056b1864b107;0b-1961b1962b84;1b-2036b316b1528b180;7b-2044b336b5b1701;0b-3473b1441b1854b178;4b-2042b2042b14;4b-2051b336b1702;85;1;13;2;264b-1998b307b1704;45;27;95;159;47;465;218;0;1;0;4;66;101b-2921b890b311b1699b21;37;1069;48;40b-2006b302b1512;151;407b-1525b1718b1;1b-1719b1719;141b-2058b336b1528b107x-29e9;69b-1896b1790b78;5b-3375b1497b1799b76;5b-1875b1799b76;2277;10b-1875b287b1513;9b-1805b1804b58;11b-1862b1804b58;1b-3352b1495b271b1529b57;79b-1862b293b1512;15b-1785b1785b57e6;40;354b-2791b1059b1675b237;0b-2969b1057b1675b237;73;6;65;148;139;3935b-1763b1719$


You must either: have another spec set to a higher priority, have some different settings, or using a different/custom gearing strategy.


No, Frost has been my spec of choice since early WoD. Not using any custom anything, here’s a link to my settings (had no idea it wouild put the imnage in here… did notice I didn’t have mythic plus set, doubt this makes much difference as we are dealing only with what I already have):


OK, I started kinda from scratch. Seem to recall there used to be a save button on simulation results, all I see is a “Add to Favorites” so I named them and I guess they are saved.

Here is my run on currently equipped gear (I run everything at default):

6-19 gear
825581 DPS

Here is what AMR is showing me as bib:

6-19 amr bib
820070 DPS

BiB claimed a 0.97% increase, like the orb guys in Suramar say “something’s not quite right.” I then manually added in the Soul ring, the best gloves I thought I had in my bags. Interesting:

6-19 manual bib
836821 DPS

Don’t see “locked” anywhere like I used to a while back, but if one manually changed any gear, it would stay that way. BUT I see a “save as current gear.” I did paste my last import above, so I can go back to what is current gear. I did use the “save as gear.”

No idea how you could have come up with an 852k dps sim. AND I notice your setup for the bib sim you ran has 2 very different trinkets. I went and manually added them into the gear I ran fir my “6-19 manual bib” and got 814ish, almost the same as what you got. All I can remember is for the longest time I was not so much understand why the Arcanocrystal was so higky rated, at least to 860. Hell, that was always my BiS. And thriugh all the bib I’ve run, it always was THE choice.


So I quit and realaunched the site. It showed the exact set of gear that I manually configured. I simmed that to 836, virtually identical to what I had gotten earlier. THEN I ran bib on that. Hmmmm, it gave me a 7.21% dps increase… it put back the Lady Vash gloves and the ring I replaced AND added in the 2 tier pioeces, chest and shoulder . Simmed that to…822 ish. Almost identical to the AMR bib run I posted above. That makes twice now that a bib run actually simmed lower than equipped, even though one had my choice of equipped.


All of the default gearing strategies were created assuming you will use a potion – I think we assumed prolonged power. That could account for some differences you are seeing, they are pretty impactful.


Huh? I said I ran the sims at defult settings… and exactly how does that impact not only the difference between your bib and mine, but the fact that bib seems completely broken?


It’s not broken as far as I can tell… and the settings will make an impact on the simulation results. If you use different settings than what we used to create the strategies, you may get different results.


The most recent round of comparison sims posted used the 970 version of the Soul of the Archmage ring. Be careful of that now that 970s are available.


Last time I’m going to have anything to say… twice you keep telling me about settings, yet fail to give me a hint what settings you are talking about… I posted an image of what I am using and told you the sim settings are all YOUR defaults. BiB is clearly very broken, unreliable and something I simply can not trust.


brightbrown read up… I can spell it out in more detail if you want:

food: feast, highest quality
flask: primary stat
potion: prolonged power
augment rune: enabled

Everything else you can set to default.

I used our default gearing strategy for single target, with the export data you provided above. I set gem quality to Epic and enchants to All. Those should be the only really relevant settings to best-in-bags.

It produces the simulations that I posted above, and the best-in-bags optimization looks correct.

I don’t know what else you might be using to get a different optimization result… would you like me to just reset your account settings for that character back to the defaults?