New here: Question about BiS vs BiB


#1

So, I recently became a “premium” to get the functionality of BiB. However, I’m pretty confused about the information both tools are outputting to me. Let me digress…

I’m a resto druid who primarily raid heals. I have every piece of T19 and T20. A lot (not all) of my T19 is mythic. All of my T20 is heroic.

BiB wants me to equip my 4 piece T19 right now and then stack mastery where possible based on my current stats. Sure, ok, I did that although I found it a tad odd it wanted me to go backwards a tier (sure, ok, maybe the set bonus is better. I see some top world restos doing that as well). But, when calculating BiS, it’s now saying the BiS gear is gear it JUST told me to unequip in BiB. So…BiS is not BiB? How is that? How can the chest be BiS, which I have in my bags, and not be BiB? Anyone explain this?


#2

Could it be the gear combination?

Meaning that the item you’d have to replace it with is better according to the defined stat weight etc, than the single BIS items improvement? Together with the other equipped items that is.
I understood it as if you just had one BIS item, do feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.

Edit:
This was horribly formulated of me :stuck_out_tongue:


#3

Hello Ukon,

Thanks for responding. I merely gave an example of one piece of “BiS” which is not “BiB”. If I were to look at BiS for my current character, I have every item minus 2 or so that Mr. Robot is looking for on Heroic ToS (damn neck piece won’t drop off Desolate Soul and still don’t have the legendary trinket. Sigh).

The problem is that BiB wants me to use my 4 piece T19 in conjunction with my Legendary Shoulders (a potent combo if talented with germination). However, when calculating BiS, Mr. Robot wants me to use the 4-piece T20 with a different legendary other than shoulders. BiB wants me to change up ~80% of my current BiS. BiS, in return, would have me change ~80% of my BiB.

I ran standard single fight Krosus simulations on both setups, and the HPS are almost equal: BiS items are 2k HPS more than my BiB items (which is negligible). I also ensured that both Nighthold and ToS are in my filter at the appropriate difficulties for my gear sets.

Again, I understand why my BiB wants T19 in conjunction with my legendary shoulders. That’s powerful, perhaps more so than the slight item level upgrades of T20 heroic. However, all pieces considered, BiS should = BiB if those pieces are available…even if it wants me to take a step back…right?


#4

So, it sounds like you already did the work to confirm that the two sets of gear are very close in value.

BiS and BiB won’t necessarily find the same solution, since that solution depends heavily on the items that are available to the optimizer. The starting conditions influence the results.

There is necessarily a margin of error on the BiB and BiS calculations, so they won’t pick the exact same set of gear unless they are both given the exact same set of conditions.

We have some new and improved default gearing strategies coming down the pipe that should make the two solutions tend closer together, at least with respect to set bonuses and legendary items, but there will always be some differences. BiS looks at so many more items than BiB that we have to adjust how it solves the problem.


#5

Swol,

I appreciate the response. Very well stated, and that makes sense, to the degree that I understand how Mr Robot works.

Basically, here’s the final rundown of what I’m seeing after doing a boatload of research and studying top world resto gear and talent choices:

Current BiB results: Truly is BiS with those combinations as long as I run germination (primarily) and cenarion ward (which I typically run by default; germination, for raiding, I don’t normally) as talents and equip aman’thuls wisdom (shoulders). Those shoulders are the key to BiB results.

Current BiS results: Truly is BiS if I choose not to run germination, unequip the shoulders, and equip the dark titans belt for boosted lifebloom performance.

This is actually a really cool outcome that I wasn’t expecting from Mr. Robot. Based on a few extra simulations I’ve run for ToS, the BiB and BiS differences are practically giving me two different play-styles that will both perform to near par and depends ultimately on how a I want to play my resto druid: Spring blossoms or germination (ultimately). That’s quite impressive. I raided some mythic Goroth last night with my guild, ran both gear sets throughout the night, and, even with the BiB items lowering my ilvl from 930 to 924 over BiS, there was practically no difference in my healing (actually, the BiB might have been a tad higher, and probably would have been more so if I had more play time with germination for raids and how to execute it efficiently).

So, I believe Mr. Robot’s “discrepancies” here aren’t discrepancies at all. It’s offering two different ways to play with two different choices for talents that are practically identical.


#6

I’ve seen similar results on my own rdruid as well. The 4pT19/Shoulders vs 4pT20/tpT19/Belt sims very close (at similar ilvls, say Mythic t19 vs Heroic t20). In my case, my T19 is mostly heroic since I had crap luck and we progress slowly, so I had the swap over as soon as I hit 4pt20 (helped by a 925 t19 chest to get 2pt19 as well).

One thing that I have been looking at recently is that the belt value really does depend on the tank damage being high and consistent, and in practice I often see lower numbers than the sim (which uses a Krosus base). I’ve taken this and just put together 2 sets saved in wow, one with Belt/Velens, and one with Shoulders/Velens, and swap based on tank damage levels. I’m interested to see how a fight that has a different tank damage pattern will change the Belt value, but have not had the time to build one myself.