I’d like to know how sure you are about your Protection Paladin stat weights/distribution/graph. Because both Wowhead and Icy-Veins guide recommend haste as the top stat (both for offensive and defensive) but AMR values haste extremely low and mastery as my top stat. I’ve tried both raid and Mythic+ strategies with varying offensive settings but it didn’t really change. If I view the stat graph, haste is always extremely low on the right side of the graph.
Btw, where are the templates that I should follow that are mentioned in the forum category description?
We noticed the high weight on mastery. I double checked the simulator to make sure there were no bugs, but it seems to be working correctly.
Other sources of information base their stat recommendations mainly on feelings. We base ours on our simulations. Two different approaches. I think our method will ultimately give you the highest chance to stay alive.
The current consensus on most sites is that tanks are very hard to reliably simulate, so being told “We sim, others base it on feelings” is a little tough to swallow while some of us are still waiting to hear a more detailed explanation of what TUF actually means.
Every other site I could find suggests Haste is still king, yet Mr Robot actively tells me to avoid it (e.g. equip a Crit/Mast ring over a Haste/Mastery one). The other oddness i noticed was the tendency to suggest purely offensive azerite traits on every setting other than Pure Defence, but this could be a genuine case of “you’re tough enough, go for damage”.
I don’t know enough about what the simulator actually does to say there’s anything outright wrong here, but it does seem massively at odds with the information being put out by the rest of the community.
The simulations are against predominantly physical damage. The current default strategy is using Holy Shield, which certainly adds to the value of Mastery even more. We are working quickly to create our gearing strategies that adapt to your talents, instead of being based around a static talent build.
We have a write-up on “TUF” (which is just a tweak to NPS) coming soon!
The simulator simulates a very realistic fight. You take the real amount of damage that enemies do, in the pattern that they do that damage. We also simulate healers healing you in a realistic manner. We do intentionally tone the healers back a bit to let you try to save yourself a bit more - but we are still in the process of tuning the healers and giving more options for customizing the healers in the simulations. The customized healer piece will probably happen in a few weeks - have to get adaptive strategies for Uldir done first.
If you set the report option to “log” on a simulation - you can see everything that is happening in the simulation, line by line. I’m not sure why this would be harder to swallow than “I feel like haste works for me”
We understand that sometimes people just like playing with more of a certain stat, like haste. But, the simulator is good at finding what really works to keep you alive more reliably - which is sometimes not going to be the intuitive choice.
“Every other site” recommending something is also a huge misnomer - since most of that information is controlled by just a couple people. So really it isn’t as lop-sided as it seems. We have an idea. A couple other people worked on a different idea. It’s not AMR vs the world, heh.
Looks like I’m gonna have to do a little digging under the hood then. I wasn’t aware most other places get info from such a small pool, that’s an interesting one to me.
Thanks for the reply, and sorry if my last post sounded hostile, it wasn’t the intent.
The tanking simulator is still considered “new” mainly because no one else will use it The other theorycrafters generally don’t like to use tools that they didn’t create themselves - especially a tool made by AMR. If they used it they couldn’t tell everyone AMR sucks, because they’d come to the same conclusions as us, which would be no fun for them.
It has actually undergone multiple revisions since we first made it at the start of Legion - and we have more stuff coming soon like I mentioned above.
@carstein I also have some blog posts that go into great detail about every aspect of simulating tanks. I haven’t done a good job of explaining that in one place yet. I’ll have those posted on the blog before Uldir, so keep an eye out. Or hit me up if you want a direct link (if I forget to message you when they go out).
I want to mention a thread on MMO-Champion here. Someone created a spreadsheet that also shows a very high value for Mastery. But in contrast to AMR the creator of this spreadsheet also values Haste very high, right behind Mastery.
What’s also said there (on page 2) is that you might prioritize total damage reduction rather than damage intake smoothness in your sims. This might explain the low value of Haste that you get. I hope this is explained when you publish those blog posts about tanking sims and TUF.
From playing around with the Optimal Stat Graph, I’m noticing a point at about 375 ilvl where the stat priority on Mr Robot flips completely, from “dump haste, maximise mastery” to “dump mastery, maximise haste”, so I’m guessing it has something to do with a certain threshold of SotR uptime in the simulator. If I can finally catch up with my world quests I might try and have a deeper dig around and see if I can work it out for myself
We will make an Uldir boss next week sometime. The current script is still applicable, though - the damage levels have all been updated to be appropriate.
I can say from experience I have built towards haste and versatility due to other sites showing that it was king and did have problems with survivability. I have went by AMR standards now and it is paying off huge. No more random 1 shots just ensure to keep consecration up at all times with quick cd it’s easy to do.
I’m seeing the same thing on my Prot Warrior. Haste is listed first on “all the guides” but AMR has me very heavy in Vers followed by Mastery, then very little Crit and Haste.
As i read the guides, their logic is that Haste reduces the GCD so therefore you can cast more Sheild Blocks to keep AM up, and more Shield Slams to create more rage… I understand that logic, but maybe it is better to use Vers to reduce damage coming in (esp. magic damage) and Mastery for more critical blocks and larger ignore pain shields.
A lot of the hate against Prot Warriors is that without active mitigation up we get one shot. I’m tanking Mth+4 now and not really feeling that I am too squishy - It’s not mythic Uldir, but still tough content.
I have found that a lot of prot warriors don’t give enough value to Ignore Pain. Ignore Pain is very good. People tend to think of shield block as way more important than ignore pain… when really using both in a smart way is optimal.
I’ve been tanking on my warrior and I don’t feel particularly squishy either. Warriors have a lot of abilities to use. I aggressively use Ignore Pain, especially against a single target I prioritize it even more than shield block and then save shield block for when I’m getting hit by multiple enemies.
I have a question about this. Our mastery excells for standing insidne Our consecration. But that is not always possible to do (kiting, mechanics etc.). Is Your simulation based on us standing 100% inside Our own consecration?
Yes, we assume you are always in your consecration. With the shorter cooldown on it, the amount of time you have to be outside it should be pretty minimal.
can we please get an update to this? Is the same thing going on today in Dragonflight? Is Mastery still better than haste? In my experience I do feel kind of ‘squishy’, and I can sense that the healers are struggling to heal me in raids when I go pure haste.
