Best in bags hit rating and trinket error

Snapshot: 56a752c3aba645f7b45ac32ab46a8534

  1. Why is it telling me to get truckloads of hit over cap? I understand expertise is not that important for Ret, so I understand it strategizing for less than the “cap”. But the hit rating that high just seems like a massive error. My 4 set is not that many dps, to warrant being this far over cap. Most of my 4 set goes to waste due to Crit DR, and my BiS doesn’t even include a 4 set bonus. I simply can’t trust these numbers.

  2. Why on earth is it telling me to wear a meme trinket you only seen worn at the Goldshire Inn, on RP servers? The tentacle trinket isn’t even on my BiS list, which includes Naxx gear even, it goes so far down the list. I cannot trust this as a wise change to make.

Please tell me there is a bug here, and how to fix it. I cannot fathom the sim is just this bad.

All setting are default.

I made a change to add hand of reckoning into the rotation – looks like I have it flagged as a spell that can miss, but I believe it cannot miss, so that could be raising the value a little. I’ll tweak that and it should change the results a little.

To answer your other questions:

  1. Getting an extra 3% hit is not “truckloads”. And there are multiple ret spells that use spell hit rather than melee hit, which has a higher cap, like exorcism, hammer of wrath, etc.

I also don’t know what this “crit DR” is that you are talking about. Sometimes we talk about things differently than other sites, so perhaps I know it under a different name if you could describe what you are referring to.

  1. People seem to really hate that trinket… I don’t personally have it so it’s hard for me to say how annoying it is to use – we already cut its value in half from the theoretical max DPS it could do. So I dunno… try it? Look at a log and see how much DPS the tentacles do? Is your team running content that is so hard that trying a different trinket for a run will ruin your day?

  2. Do you really raid with zero buffs, zero debuffs, and no consumables? You’re gonna do real bad damage … might want to talk to your raid leader. But our optimizer will try its best to adapt to your settings no matter what they are and make the best of it.

I trust the theory crafting of my class community. The idea that everyone else is wrong about the meme trinket, and your sim is the correct one, seems fantastically naïve, sorry. It’s literally not even on our list. I’m not saying it’s in the wrong placement; it’s literally not even on the list. This is not a good trinket. Every Naxx trinket, from 10 or 25, is better. Not because of the spacing and movement related to the tentacles, but because the tentacles don’t do any damage, or very little, anyway.

I just assumed your sim would put in all the default buffs, that everyone raids with. I was under the impression the raid buffs section was for PI, Tricks, and other one target raid buffs. Do I really need to tell it we buff Kings? Really?

DR = Diminishing Returns

There is not now, and there never has been in the past, even one guide written about Ret, in the history of this game, that suggests a player should hit the spell hit cap, rather than the melee hit cap. That will NOT result in more DPS, no matter what the sim says. If the sim says that, it’s wrong. I think the real issue though, is the over valuing of the 4 set bonus. Is actual math used for these, or is it just default assumed everyone wants a 4 set bonus?

There is nothing wrong with my logs, friend. I don’t know why you would try and insult me, but it worked. This isn’t all just theory. I actually raid every week, killing every hard mode, in one night. My RL is not about to kick me, guy.

Yes, he knows DR means diminishing returns. Crit, in general, does not have diminishing returns. I can’t think of a specific ret mechanic that would cause it to diminish as you get more of it. If you were able to reach 100% crit on some subset of your spells, the value of crit could go down - but I don’t see that happening in your case. And that’s not “diminishing returns” anyway - that’s a soft cap.

I don’t see the optimizer suggesting that you hit the spell hit cap. What yellow meant was that hit does have some value above the melee hit cap. It could be optimal in some cases to get more hit - mainly due to itemization restrictions.

We don’t think we are right and everyone else is wrong. We have just built something a little different. The optimizer on our site is a tool that allows people to customize the calculations to their specific use case. This is something that has not been available in the past. Most theorycraft is done assuming a very specific set of conditions: buffs, fight length, etc. By allowing that flexibility, it is possible to see suggestions that don’t necessarily make sense to you at first. After digging into it and considering all the variables, the suggestions do actually make sense in context.

By default, we have all the raid buffs turned on. You must have turned them off at some point to optimize with no buffs. Just turn them back on and the site will remember that for future use.

As far as that trinket goes… exclude it from the list if you don’t like it. We’ve looked around and found the best info we could for it… theoretically it’s not as bad as people think. Maybe there is something very specific bugged out with it in-game? Hard to say - if someone would like to try using it and provide logs to us, we could potentially update it further. Like yellow said, we already slashed the value of it in half from what the spell data would suggest it does.

Would you be willing to just try the trinket for a fight or two, log it to see how much damage it does? It is an unpopular item so it is difficult to find any information on it. I went by some posts I found from back in the day where someone tested and logged each tentacle’s damage. Then I cut that in half for now to account for positioning issues, wonky pet AI in real fights, or whatever else.

Also keep in mind that we’re not talking huge differences here… for example compared to your Wrathstone, it has +40 static crit rating, which is ~0.87% chance to crit. The on-use AP buff is pretty good on the Wrathstone, but it’s not going to be some massive DPS increase… maybe 4% under perfect conditions, usually less, probably more like 2-3%. So if you just ballpark it… if the tentacles can do even 1-2% of your DPS, it starts to become at least competitive. Maybe not better, but certainly not “meme bad”.

But as said above… I can’t find any data on how much you can actually get out of the tentacles in this current iteration of WotLK. Since you have the item, you could just try it out… if they do indeed do near-zero damage, just let me know. But make sure to give it a fair shake and summon the tentacles at a good time!

I have logs where I have worn it in the past, before I had the the Wrathstone. But I don’t have any side by sides.

If you don’t have any data on what the meme trinket is putting out, then why is the sim telling me it’s better???

I don’t know how they got turned off, but clicking the buffs on fixes it. The only change it offers now, is to wear the 4 set by changing two items that have the same stat results. This is a result that at least makes sense, although I’m not convinced it’s a 2% increase.

Can you link me a log with it equipped? I’d like to see some of the damage events from the tentacles and compare to the data that I have.

Also, if the Sim isn’t equipped to sim for no raid buffs, one has to wonder why that is an option in the UI for the site.

So looks like the constrictor tentacle got killed early, and the corruptor tentacle had two of its 5 casts miss, and had 20% of its time cut short by the end of the fight. Together they did 0.67% of your damage… so with better luck and/or planning one could probably get up to 2% from the tentacles without too much trouble.

Either way, they seem a bit unreliable and annoying to use, so I just reduced the damage they do for now since people really dislike it. Even though at 1.5-2% it would beat some lower ilvl trinkets, people just wouldn’t like that result from the optimizer.

Also – the optimizer will work just fine with no buffs, but you’ll get different results than you would expect. All the theorycraft and guides that you see assume full buffs. One of the main things that sets our site apart is that it will adapt to whatever you give it: no buffs, limited or unusual combinations of gear in your inventory, etc. It’s good at finding unexpected solutions that work well.

I wore it on all 11 fights, if you want to peruse the data further, fyi.

Your character only appears in 3 kills in that particular log, I only had time yesterday to look in detail at one of them, I might look at one of the others when I get time.