BiB Stat Weights and Gems - Primary Stat given too much weight?

After running SimCraft on my Outlaw Rogue, I got the following normalized stat weights: Agi - 1.00, Mast - 1.22, Haste - 1.42, Crit - 2.53, Vers - 2.67. As you can see, Vers and Crit are far above the others (and more than 2.5x better than Agility).

My problem comes when I try to run BiB for gems. According to the weights, a +120 Agi gem has less value than a +50 Crit or Vers gem, and yet BiB will insist on the Agi. I can force gemming in the customize setting, but only for one secondary stat, when what I’m really looking for is how to balance my two best stats without Agi getting in the way.

Is there a way to tell the program that a primary stat is not worth as much as the secondaries? Or else select more than a single Gem Mode during customization?

If you don’t want it to pick agility gems, set Jewelcrafter Gem Mode to No JC Gems.

Also – stat weights generated with simc are not a very good way to rank gear. I know of very few people who recommend or use that function anymore. Plenty of people still use the simulator itself to make decisions about gear, but the stat weight part has fallen by the wayside.

We stopped using stat weights many years ago as well – we use different statistical models that are more adaptive.

Bottom line though: the difference between one primary stat gem and one secondary stat gem is extremely small. Go ahead and use the customization features to do whatever you like, and you won’t be able to notice in-game.

Setting JC Gem Mode to No JC Gems, and returning regular Gem Mode to Auto still resulted in BiB recommending Leviathan’s Eye (+120 Agi) over a secondary stat gem. Is it possible that your formula doesn’t even entertain the idea of not wanting the +120 primary stat gem?

Also, I’ve seen before how you feel about stat weights and SimC. I’ve relied on AMR since MoP, and put a lot of trust in its recommendations, but when there’s a case like this - where two secondary stats are so far outclassing the primary that it overrides what’s usually a BiS gem choice - I’m reluctant to go with a single, black box solution. I’ve looked at other sources, especially the best WarcraftLogs posts for Outlaw Rogues at top gear levels and also at my level, and I’m trying to apply that real-world info to your system. (Ex. top Outlaw vs. Mythic Maut socketed every piece of their gear and stacked only crit gems, leading me to believe there’s some value there)

We don’t know what gear you’ve got available to you, if you provide a Snapshot id we can have a look and give you better feedback.
Remember that BiB is giving you a result from the gear you have available to you now. What you have and what the top logs have isn’t going to be the same.

When I look at the gems for my rogue the list is ordered the way you want it to be, this is what it looks like for my rogue at 478 ilvl in Pirate spec.

Yeah I would need a snapshot ID to investigate further: click “help” next to the big Best in Bags section header, then Create Support Post, and copy the snapshot ID here.

In theory that setting should override all other considerations for gems, but it’s possible that some other settings are conflicting. Dealing with the JC gem constraints are a huge pain.

ty, didn’t know about the snapshot system…

Snapshot after making your suggested changes (Gem Mode to Auto, JC Gem Mode to No JC Gems). BiB recommends the +120 Agi gem on the belt:

Snapshot of forced Vers gems (gem mode to Vers Only, JC Gems to Auto):

Snapshot of forced Crit gems instead of Vers (this is what I’m trying to get AMR to decide - Crit or Vers with no Agi):

FYI I only have 2 sockets right now (belt & legs), but planning on getting more from Wrathion. Thanks for looking into this.

From your first snapshot the gems look like this:
So very little difference, it’s not even a tenth of a percent or about 35dps for you.

Just going to note that you’ve got a lot of customisations set, that will effect those results too. Yellowfive will be able to explain more if it’s needed.

When I first read your post my initial feeling was that your gear wasn’t high enough for the to show you what you expected and it looks like my suspicion was correct.
As you get more gear your base agility will increase and the agility gem is unlikely to be suggested.

In this case the customization setting to never use JC gems isn’t quite working as expected – it should exclude them no matter what when chosen. The way it was implemented allowed them to slip through from time to time though.

The value of a 120 agility gem and a 50 secondary stat gem for your character is going to be very close either way – it really doesn’t matter which you choose. Also, looking at what someone in high-level gear did on a mythic fight to make decisions about your ~ilvl450 gear won’t exactly match up. It will often be optimal to use a slightly different strategy until your gear reaches the same levels. That’s one of the main things that our website does that others don’t – adapt to lower-level and “imperfect” gear to get the most out of it for you.

tks for looking into this.

As far as my gear lvl goes - this is pretty much my endgame. Solo player w/no guild and really odd playing hours = LFR lvl with the occasional bonus piece a little higher. Even Residuum is tough to get w/o M+ runs. So my nit-picking over %s is to get the most i can out of what I have.

I just updated the site – should be fixed now if you re-import and optimize again.

If your ilvl is never going to go much higher that’s fine – but you’ll probably want slightly different gear than the top people doing mythic fights. In particular, the value of secondary stats relative to primary stats goes up as your item level increases, so it would make sense that an agility gem would be a bit stronger for you than for someone in 475+ mythic gear.

As the ranked list shows, it’s a pretty small shift though – even the stat weights you originally posted make the two gems rank pretty close (agi gem would be 120 points, crit gem would be 126.5 points, as a percent upgrade to your total score we’re looking in the 0.0X% range).