How is AMR looking for SL?

I catch a lot of flack for using AMR instead of raidbots in my guild, but I really prefer your interface & ease of use, and options myself. How’s AMR looking going into SL? I know you guy’s results differ quite a bit from those of say raidbots, but that’s because they just import the simc updates, and you guys make your own sims right?

Yep – we do all our own stuff. Sometimes we find slightly different things than other people, but usually it’s pretty similar. Where you see the most differences are for specs that other people don’t simulate (tanks and healers) but that we do. Healers and tanks also tend to be a lot more subjective anyway, so it’s hard to get anyone to agree on the one best way to play (and we don’t really think it’s necessary for people to agree – there’s lots of ways to play healers and tanks that work just as well).

We have a beta of the simulator part for Shadowlands, more details here: Shadowlands Simulator Beta

Not all specs are done yet, we’re releasing them as we finish them (Druids should be available sometime today or early tomorrow).

The optimizer is still a work in progress – I hope to do a beta of the pre-patch gear optimizer before the pre-patch to test it out a bit. Then the pre-patch itself always acts as kind of a “live test” for Shadowlands itself (both for Blizzard and for us).

So we’re getting there – it’ll come down to the wire as with every expansion because Blizzard changes things right up to the last minute, but we’ll be ready!

It’s hard to explain sometimes… but it’s worth pointing out that comparing raidbots to AMR isn’t really an apples to apples comparison.

Our optimizer uses data we collect from simulations - but we layer a statistical/mathematical analysis on top of that data to identify gear trends and find good builds. Simulation data is noisy and also has a level of error that cannot be measured since the game is fairly random. Our opinion is that simulation is a tool that should be used to generate large data sets and analyzed for trends. No one specific data point can be assigned too much meaning.

Raidbots is an interface to set up and run simulations with simc. It reports those results in order from highest to lowest. Each single data point is assigned full meaning.

Obviously, we prefer our approach. It doesn’t really make sense for people to “give you flack” for using AMR - it’s just a popular thing to do because… you know, who else is out there even attempting to generate an original opinion outside the class discords/simc? To your guild members I would say: if there are two sets of people trying to solve the same problem, it’s always worth checking both of them out. More data is always better. I’ve been using AMR for a decade and I’m really good at WoW, if that helps. (that was a joke. even though I am really good at WoW.)


I personally love the customization that AMR allows. In BFA I main Havoc DH and was quite proud to run an unconventional build in running the Fel Blade/Demon Blade talents. AMR suggested highly controversial recommendations that tossed many raised eyebrows my way amongst my fellow DHs, but AMR made it work wonderfully. I was suggested to go primarily haste > vers heavy with double Revolving Blades and not a single Eyes of Rage Azerite anywhere. In practice, my damage primarily came from Blade Dance and I was able to weave in 4 full Dances within the 8-second haste windows (Most good DHs would strive for 3 and most couldn’t hit that number). It was so much fun to play given how good haste feels and the great thing was that my build was quite competitive even though it was different. I NEVER found any other DH that played like me and that felt great.

TL;dr I’m happy with how AMR can assist you in making how YOU want to play be reasonably competitive (where differences in DPS were obvious Play/RNG factors in play and NOT poor build recommendations) with other builds and other people and I can’t wait to see how things are even better and more refined in SL. If you want to play off-meta or if you want to play along with the meta AMR WILL make it work.

Thank you!

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We’re glad you like it! This is exactly what we’re trying to encourage more people to do – use the customization tools to try out different builds. There are a lot more ways to play than people think that perform quite well.

I’m still working on getting all the customization options functioning, but it will be similar to BfA: you’ll be able to control the stat ratio, gem/enchant behavior, and then customize the value of specific legendaries, soulbind abilities, conduits, trinkets (and set bonuses when they add those in). This is in addition to the normal locking and excluding behavior.

We are also going to try to have more “canned” strategies for people who find the customization tools a bit daunting (or aren’t sure what to try in the first place) – things based on popular builds, or just interesting builds that we think would be fun for people to try out.

I have been using AMR for a couple of expansions now and plan to continue. My favorite feature is BiB that lets me import directly to in-game equipment sets. Combined with a bag addon like AdiBags that groups items together I always know what I can DE or sell.

The guides are also a wealth of info. I guess this is where the analysis of logs comes in because given tons of data they are able to tell you whether you should wait to combine cooldowns, when to consume procs, and all kinds of other useful info.

Given the complexity of Shadowlands, I am curious to see how the optimizer will work WRT soulbinds and conduits.

Working on it! We plan to do full soulbind and conduit optimization with Best in Bags, in addition to your gear.

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