Innervate - Arcane mage


Would it be possible to set a certain number of innervates to recieve during the calculations please? I’m being recommended a bunch of healer spirit and mp5 gear i just won’t need based on the amounts of innervates my raid can provide and i’m assuming its also affecting my t5 vs t6 BiS tier choices too.


If you think that mana won’t be a problem due to extra innervates, you could reduce the fight length you are optimizing for to get the result you want. Changing that setting to be an arbitrary number would touch on a lot of code, so I don’t know if I want to go there or not.

Honestly I’d find that exceptionally hard to calculate how much time to knock off that would equal one innervate without all the behind the scenes math or at least a DPS estimation. Could it not be added as essentially a consumable?

I’m thinking its just recommending the entirely wrong gear anyway:


I’m not sure why for a 60 second fight it is telling me healing gear with frost enchants is the best in slot for an Arcane mage in phase 3 with everything selected. Something is certainly incorrect.

If you are casting spells without stopping for 60 seconds straight at that gear level with the setup you are using… you’re going to end up using a lot of filler (frost bolts). It’s to the point that you’d end up getting more out of increasing frost bolt’s damage.

If you want to optimize for those times in the fight where you can tee off with arcane blast, you’ll have to make it even shorter. Getting blessing of wisdom instead of kings would also make a big difference.

I can take a look at the code and see what it would take to put innervate in there… arcane mage was pretty tough to deal with, so I have to be careful messing with it.

Appreciated thanks!

I can promise you i most definitely can cast arcane blasts without a filler rotation for a fairly long time, probably pushing upto and above 4 minutes depending on Shadow priest and/or Innervates :slight_smile: and pretty regardless theres no chance any guild raiding tier 6 will allow mages to have healing gear so the current suggestions would be irrelevant anyway unfortunately. I suppose i could go through and blacklist every item with +healing on it but that will take me a long long time.

Does the code take into account mana gem + super mana potion on cooldown + evocation too?

For example on a 5 minute lurker fight I was able to basically none stop cast AB with a single innervate and mana gem/super mana potion on cooldown

Anything i can provide to help please let me know.

I’m taking all those sources of mana into account - I’m not totally sure why it’s suggesting that soulfrost enchant, in particular. I’m not getting similar results on my development build. I’ll post an update sometime soon and see if that fixes it up.

Keep in mind that in actual fights, you often will have periods of time where you regenerate mana. The optimizer has the luxury of knowing how long the fight is, so it calculates the perfect distribution of spells to maximize damage. Sometimes what it does won’t match exactly what you are doing in-game. For arcane mage in particular, setting it up for short fights (like 45-60 seconds) should give people the gear choices they are expecting.

It’s hard for me to say what is technically going to be “correct” - in theory having extra mana for extra spell casts can be just as beneficial as spell damage stats. Once arcane blast is stacked up, it does less damage/mana than filler spells, making the calculations a little complicated. It only makes sense to cast stacked up arcane blast when you have an excess of mana for the fight.

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FYI - I’m going to post an update shortly that adds an innervate option that you can try out.

In exploring this - I did some testing on the arcane mage calculations to make sure everything was working correctly. Arcane mage in TBC is one of those specs that I find a bit confusing because the guides out there and even play style of high parsing arcane mages doesn’t make sense to me. The whole idea is maximize the damage you can get from your mana, which my calculations do, but the way people are playing is sub-optimal.

I know having perfect information about the length of a fight ahead of time gives the optimizer an inhuman advantage, but I think players should be considering different filler rotation strategies than they are currently using. There is no reason to ever ramp arcane blast up unless you plan to cast a string of full stack arcane blasts. You want to ramp up as few times as possible during a fight (pretty much do it for your cooldowns). I see these logs where people will ramp up during a filler cycle, just to then let it drop after only casting one or two full stack arcane blasts. That is not mana-efficient.

As a result, my calculations will use more filler spells (frost bolt is the most common build) than some players use in-game. The result is more overall damage, though. I suggest that if you are playing arcane your filler should be one arcane blast, then frost bolt until the buff drops (the number can vary based on your haste). Ramp up fully when you are ready to dump a large portion of your mana pool only. Never cast 1 or 2 stack arcane blasts unless you are ramping up to a string of 3 stack arcane blasts.

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I’m happy to test any rotations you need me too, usually with simulations or calculations I try to replicate what they are doing exactly but as its all hidden away it’s hard for me to suggest where things might differ to an irl scenario.
I can also test any non raid buffed scenario on Dr Boom.

I personally run my mana down to 15% and then use the filler as you’ve said, 1 AB then 3 x FB and repeat until either mana gem, super mana potion, evocation or innervate is available.

Things that potentially may have been missed?:

T5 two set bonus
Lower cast time on Arcane Blast each cast
Arcane focus talent giving 10% hit to arcane spells
Spirit count is vastly incorrect on char sheet
Spell damage count is incorrect on char sheet
Potentially incorrect values for Mana spring/ Mana tide totem
Vampiric Touch mana return estimated too low? (Seems a likely one as it’d be dependant on the DPS of the SPriest)

Many thanks for the innervate section I’ll have a play around with it :slight_smile:

If you have a specific example where you think stats are not being calculated correctly, post a snapshot, and let me know what you believe the correct total to be. I can then look at the calculation and determine if there is an error or not.

To my knowledge all buffs, talents, and set bonuses are accounted for in the optimizer.

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An example snapsnot:


Spirit says 38, if i hover over it, it tells me 220 from gear if i count it all up from the suggested gear its 214


Perhaps I’m misunderstanding the Char sheet numbers?

I checked on this and I am giving a very generous estimate for vampiric touch, compared to logs. Probably a bit too high, but I am finding people prefer the results as if they have a little extra mana.

I take into account all the set bonuses and talents.

The optimizer picks up more hit because it’s still an efficient stat when you are casting many frost bolts during filler. You can see if you shorten the fight to something very short, where you’ll definitely cast only arcane blast the whole fight, it gets 6% hit. The longer the fight, the more frost bolts get added in and then the optimizer finds that some items with hit become the most efficient for increasing total damage.

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I’ll fix that stat display – note that it’s just a display issue. The optimizer on the server is using the correct spirit value.

Perfect, thanks both.

Ok, we posted an update that should fix the issues. There was a fairly specific bug that was throwing some of the rankings around.

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Aha! Perfect, seeing everything I’d expect to be now and it all makes a lot more sense :slight_smile: Thanks for looking into this.