Paladin stat weights wotlk

I haven’t used this in a while, but how do you see and adjust stat weights again? it seems like it very much over values MP5, or maybe under values crit/haste for a holy paladin. Also it doesn’t show distilled wisdom as a consumable anymore even though Ive read on places like icy veins its still the bis for holy paladins.

We don’t use stat weights - we have a mathematical model of the specs that we use as a scoring function. If you don’t want to be as mana-limited, optimize for a shorter fight length and then crit/haste becomes more valuable, relatively.

You can also adjust the breakdown of spells being used with the “customize” tab - check the “Healer Spell Breakdown” option and you can mess around with it. That could also affect what stats are chosen.

For the flask… I can look at adding distilled wisdom back in. I don’t think it will have any affect on which gear gets chosen for you, though. I also highly doubt that it is optimal from a pure numbers perspective - maybe it’s cost effective because it’s so close in value you won’t notice a difference.

just another quick holy paladin question

f0751d65590c4591bc666be65ae255ad its recommending spell piercing for a holy paladin cape enchant. Why? Wouldn’t haste be better? also why when I try to have it show me my bis for naxx 25 it recommends cloak of kea feathers over pennant cape, and then even more of a question it says i get more of an upgrade from disguise of the kuhimo when I try the upgrade finder options from valor badges.

also a question for ret. does it calculate the expertise I get from my glyph of seal of vengeance?

I don’t know why that spell penetration enchant is being picked - in your BiB it ought to be putting on the spell power enchant. I’ll figure out what is going on with the enchant list. The haste enchant is better if you reduce the fight length more, such that you aren’t mana-limited.

The only way to give haste much value for healing is to shorten the fight enough that you aren’t mana-limited. Haste does not have any theoretical value until you are time-limited instead of mana-limited.

For your BiS question - your settings have it at 180 seconds - you will be mana-limited, making the haste of little value and the mp5 of high value.

The upgrade finder has to look at items in relation to the gear in your bag. BiS looks at items in relation to every item available. You won’t necessarily get the exact same rankings/choices between the two tools because of that.

And, yes, we have the expertise from glyph of seal of vengeance included in the calculations.

I see the issue. The spell power enchant is an engineering thing, I believe. So all of the enchants available to you are of zero value, so it just picked one at random, more or less. I’ll see if we can put in some logic to pick a relevant enchant when they don’t have any value in the scoring function.

Another quick question, I thought I was supposed to use the 21 agility meta and a nightmare tear, but its saying use a couple of Sovereign Twilight opals, isnt that just less dps than a nightmare tear?

That is potentially a slightly higher dps setup. It starts to fall into the margin of error built in to the optimizer (for performance), especially for gems. I’ll see if there is a way to tweak this case. You could lock in the relentless meta and then the optimizer has enough of a hint to figure out the rest of the solution.

It is not possible to try every single gem combo - we have to use some pruning algorithm to come up with a solution in a short time. We can’t say for sure that we will find “the” one and only max scoring combo of gems. You would not believe how much code it takes to deal with the mess of gem interactions and restrictions in wotlk… it dwarfs the code for optimizing all the gear, and is the source of almost all the time the optimizer takes.

Also note that your settings are restricting it from picking a nightmare tear, which is an epic gem.


Think I found another slight issues, that I guess I don’t understand. So I was looking at upgrade finder for 10 man naxx to see if there was anything I could use. I have the valor t 7.5 legs, and it suggests plain hero t 7 legs as an upgrade.


quick question. so im toying with the fight times, because there are very long fights. how long does a fight need to be for fury of the five flights to overtake mirror of truth?

also in the os3d tonight I picked up a leggings of the honored, which is supposedly BIS. I see in many lists they don’t use the 4 set, I assume the extra second off judgment cd isn’t that big of a deal. Is it because of the hit on the pants? is there some combination of gear that could make the pants better if I get say non tier hands, like frosted adroit handwraps or crude discoloured battlegrips? or am I just mistaken and the 4 set is that big of a deal?

Those trinkets are extremely close in value – use whichever you prefer. There are a lot of assumptions you could make that might cause one to come out on top over the other, but the difference is so small that it will never be of consequence in-game.

The legs are a similar situation – the 4pc bonus is not that strong. But you also don’t have that many good gear options for retribution, so yeah, the hit on the higher ilvl legs doesn’t get full value. If you were to get some other item options, it is possible that dropping the set bonus would be worth it.


I am trying to figure out what a good fight time to sim is, because it seems really quick to go from recommending me gem Spell power reds to mp5 blues without much intellect inbetween, I also was wondering how do get it to value throughput over regeneration, like it seems to value crit and then mp5 without much value to haste over 120 seconds, and I read on icyveins that haste is the second best stat to intellect. I get that the longer it goes the more mp5 tends to be useful but I figured with a high int, divine plea would be enough mp5.

Im looking at the BIS list, and it seems to recommend Tunic of the Artifact Guardian often as the non set piece, except in longer fights it recommends bone inlaid legguards, but all the online BIS lists show Faceguard of the Succumbed as the bis piece, and usually bands of mutual respect as the bracer, instead of the mp5 plate one. I just was wondering what options I need to use to get AMR to look more like I would expect it to. When I asked around how long people generally choose a fight to sim for its usually 2 minutes, so 120 seconds. Theres are a few fights that take around 5 minutes, is it better to Sim for the long or short fights assuming I am not building more than one gear set?
Which raid buffs are helpful to have toggled on when simming?

Sorry for the long post, just kind of confused on how the typical holy pally BIS list can be so different from what AMR recommends. Same for BiB, like when im looking for upgrades they vary wildly between 120 and 150 seconds.

It makes sense that you will see the recommendations vary a lot when you cross the threshold at which we think you will run out of mana.

You have to decide what situation you want to gear for: mana-limited or not. Leaving the fight length right at the edge is going to be… weird. If it were me, I’d just make it short, like 90 seconds and play with that gear if I’m not feeling mana-limited in-game. If I’m always oom and wishing I could heal more, I’d jack the length up to 240 or whatever and play with that gear.

Saying haste is good lacks a lot of context. When is it good? When you have to heal someone real fast? yeah. When you are 2 minutes in to a fight and running on fumes? nope. I can’t tell you for sure what will work best for you, in your raid group. The fight length combined with the other customization options gives you what you need to adjust the optimizer to your situation.