Prot Paladin Haste

Hey all! I have a little issue with the sim and my haste. Prot paladins (depending on leggo) go for 15-20% haste so we can keep the flow of holy power and up time of Shield of the Righteous nice and smooth. Yet AMR doesn’t want me to use haste at all, it tells me to go Mas > Vers > haste = crit. Is this intended or is there a way for me to input to keep 15% haste at all times?^

no, sadly tehre is no way like it was in MoP

So that basically means AMR is useless for protadins.

I would need to see your specific setup to give you more detailed advice. Press the “help” link next to the big “Best in Bags” section header, then press Create Support Post, and copy the generated ID here. With that I can get a better feel for what you are trying to do.

If you want to target a higher haste build than what our strategies go for, you can definitely do that – we have a stat customization feature that will allow you to tweak it to go for a higher haste build. After seeing your setup and getting some more detail, I can suggest some settings for you if you would like.

yeah, but we can tell robot, the % of that stat on an item.
in the past it was possible to give haste a stat weight and tell it to have the highest priority until 20% for example.
this is def not possible now

I tried the custom stats yet it seems to just negate it.
Yet here is the ID: 31ab4e016bf8459ca1b1bae68de72b46

If you want between 15-20%, you need to tell it to get more haste, I slid the haste slider up to try to get 600 haste and then it did what you want:


If you load that snapshot you will see what I did.

The new stat customization feature requires a little more trial and error if you are going for very specific amounts of stats, but it also allows you to do things that are very difficult (or impossible) with stat weights, such as striking a balance of two or three stats.

Also, this approach more closely follows how stats actually work in WoW. Stat “thresholds” and “caps” in WoW are extremely rare, and rarely optimal. You usually want a balance of multiple stats to maximize output, which is what our optimizer has been designed to do since Legion.

Stat weights were never that great a way to rank gear – they were just easy, which is why everybody used them. It took too much work to do anything more complicated. Well… we decided to put in the work, and now you have a much more powerful tool and more accurate model at your disposal.

Even in this particular case – getting a certain amount of haste with a protection paladin – there isn’t a specific threshold that you need to get. It’s not like having 17% haste would not work at all, but 18% haste would be amazing and all of a sudden your WoW life would change. The goal is simply to get an amount of haste that is in the ballpark of 15-20% and feels good to you in-game.

Using a threshold or cap would be awkward – it would try very hard to get you exactly to whatever you set it at… rather than allowing some flexibility around your target. Our new system gives you this flexibility and is thus a lot more powerful once you get used to it.

i still dont get it, i think.

is it possible to get this: c9d9fd87d6d142aba900abd62533721d
to having 20% haste and mastery/versatility nearly even?

Doenst matter what i slide at the cake, it wont get me up to more haste, but chaning the mainhand enchant to receiving more heal and get crit gems, even if crit slider is near 0

I assume you are talking about BiS, since you don’t have any gear in your bag to really change things up right now. Try loading this:

Vers is still kinda low, but I don’t think there is anything to do about that - it’s just the itemization available right now in the game.

Thats a lot to work with, going to get to it. Just hoped that it would be a bit easier. Since 500 haste is approx 15.2%. Also you are right I don’t have a lot in my bags to work with, I end up giving what I don’t deem as an immediate upgrade to people that need it more.


haha, this looks kinda funny, cuz u did not customize the sliders as much as i did and got a much better result.

Thank you very much!

Seems to be a trend with Prot Paladins in particular having this issue. I’m just getting a bit annoyed having to adjust stat priorities every time after getting a new piece of gear (since the amount of haste needed keeps changing as iLevel increases)

I don’t want to completely disregard Mr Robots stat suggestions…just the bit where it still thinks haste is crap!

As described above a little bit, going for a very specific amount of haste is not very important and rarely optimal, e.g. there’s nothing “special” about having exactly 20% haste. If you had a little less or a little more (with the extra budget allocated to other stats) it would have almost no discernible impact in-game, e.g. maybe a range of 18-22% would feel more or less the same.

That is why we no longer have a tool to let you laser-focus on a single number, and instead have the tool for targeting a ratio of stats. We found that such tools have a negative impact on the community as a whole too – people get fixated on specific numbers and ascribe way more value to them than they actually have.

As your overall gear level increases, yes, you may want to change your stat ratio. You may find that you want haste to take up less of your total available stats. I think that’s a fairly intuitive consequence of this approach to handling stats, and not hard at all to do.

When you are fiddling with the stat ratio after getting every new piece of gear, how much of a difference are you seeing? Is it going from 20% haste down to 18% on you? To that I’d say: who cares? Keep in mind that any given player won’t have enough gear to get any stat ratio they feel like – it might be that a setup with slightly less haste reaches your targets for the other three stats better, and thus more closely matches your desired stat ratio.

Also keep in mind: even when you set a custom stat target, we don’t completely ignore the value of everything else to get it, e.g. trinket procs, etc. That can cause a slightly less-perfect stat ratio to score better and be chosen. That’s a good thing.

In general for prot paladin: our model predicts that mastery+versatility are generally better stats for toughness, and crit+haste are generally better stats for damage. You can use the toughness slider to move between those general approaches as well. I think that recommendation is a very good one, though I also see why people like a bit more haste – both are valid strategies.

In the near future, we plan to offer more “out of the box” strategies for all specs that I think will help alleviate situations like this where some people want something different than what our data-driven strategies prefer.

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Try switching to blessed hammers. helps with the low haste problem. Holy Shield just needs more haste to get the AM up faster in pulls, especially with only have 2 charges by default.

What i find interesting though is that AMR recommended really low haste for Holy Shield (5% haste) and then recommended nearly double haste for Blessed Hammers (9.5%). Seems backwards to me, as holy shield definitely needs it more to be viable in dungeons.

But yeah, it seems a lot of people are talking past each other. One side wants to talk about survivability and how the numbers add up to better survivability and the other side wants to talk about it not feeling right. I think the AMR script for mythic+ is missing a bit when it comes to tanking dungeons. With low haste right now on the holy shield talent, it takes a lot of gcd’s to get things going and to get agro of a pack…we lost our snap agro generation that we had in BFA. No more running in and popping our shield to aoe and get agro and have AM up. Now we have to generate it and with Holy Shield (recommended talent) it takes a bit. Having low haste just makes that worst. Yes soloing its fine, and the survivability is great, but man is it a pain in real world scenarios.

For others in here, try blessed hammer talent till you get more haste. Lets you cast before hand and generate some holy power to be ready.

You are right that we don’t consider threat in our calculations, since historically it was a non-factor. Even now, it is going to be quite subjective. Threat on pull is a real issue now, but I’m not sure how one would quantify it. This 20% haste number people like for paladins is all based on feelings. We have some stuff we’re working on to help the robot deal with feelings and help people gear for feelings, just have to finish it up.

well yeah…the number 20 or the calculation of 20% is just that, but around there it starts to work out for those talents (holy shield in particular because thats going to give you the most issues since guides recommend it). My guess the equation would have to take in how long does it take to generate aoe threat/damage or get AM up vs dps at the same level to do so. Right now DPS have NO problem doing some snap aoe and at huge numbers. Tanks can do it too, just takes us longer with some talent choices and its compounded more if you have low haste, or we do it in cd windows.

either way though, more customizations that the user can set the better. you are not going to appease everyone so just give them the options to do it themselves. make an advanced section that lets them create their breakpoints and their goals or whatever. sure it may not be the best but if thats what they want, let them pay for it. Also…realize this isnt the first site people go to when they look into this…they go to wowhead/icyveins and all those sites tell them to do certain things. Work on letting them do those things easily or have a “icyveins/wowhead” gearing mode preset for them to choose and you will make them happy and get more money for yourselves.

There is already a customization feature that lets you adjust the stats to what you want

yeah, but not in the way guides mention people to do it. I understand how it works in AMR and i can tweak it around. What I am suggesting is trying to make it easy for people to just follow some guide online and auto do it for them. It may not be the best, it wont really teach them much, but you get money and they are happy and the rest of us can still fine tune and use stuff.