Recommending clear downgrade(s)

AMR recommending lower iLevel of same item. Seems like a bug. Also seems to be happening elsewhere, is this a generalized bug and do you want reports for each?

e.g.: in upgrade finder or the “upgrades” list in the top part of the gear finder where you click a slot to find upgrades for that slot, i can increase the iLevel of some pieces and they appear as downgrades to the lower iLevel of the same piece.

Custom Strat: “Krosus 4” (ML gearing strat)
Item Reco: Replace Brinewashed Leather Cowl 885 with 870 version of same
Import string follows:
$50;US;Stormrage;Deadruidina;Cult of Elune;6;1;110;1:68,15:1,4:58;3;.s1;6;3332113;;;;.s2;7;0000000;;;;.s3;8;3132321;948,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,17,355,32,143,125;4,4,4,3,4,3,3,3,4,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1;140837b1487b3516b3528,137302b1542b3336b3415,136720b1517b1726b3337;.s4;9;;;;;.q1;129564s5;1s8;1s10;1s1;1s7;1s3;1s16;1s6;1s9;1s2;1s13;1s11;1s12;1s14;16s15;.q2;128821s16b724x144460y-3640z-4100;1s17;5547s8b-683b1496b1876b115;2s10b-1981b1869b112;39s15b-3487b1501b185b1610e5435;28s5b-1790b1790b75;23s9b-1880b1804b76;63s12b-3372b1477b210b1801e-5;15s11b-2001b281b1605b115e0;2528s7b-69b71;248s13b-2053b349b1701;29s14b-1990b1879b112;65s6b-3487b1476b210b1801;1830s2b-3487b1446b320b1530e459;1625s3b-1865b2042b14;37s1b-2056b1864b107;.q3;128821s16b724x140837y-3535z-582;1s17;4798s3b833b1780b81;619s10b-1876b1873b113;1s1b-1981b1869b112;170s15b-3487b1501b185b1610e5435;48s9b-1805b1883b113;41s2b-1996b1804b77;40s12b-1881b276b1607b113x-6499;2805s14b-1991b1879b112;9s7b-3487b1486b1886b115;47s13b-1991b1799b76;9s6b-3371b1476b210b1801;88s8b-3487b1476b210b81b1720;827s5b-3485b1444b2029b12;3847s11b-2016b1825b78e-5;.r;_;.inv;2901;4047;102128;0;108;1376;10487v110b1707b105;201v0b-1772b1727b41b4;13v0b-131b131;1v0b-97b97;2656;1;185;16;4;313;3;2;2853;545;10;692;1;1;167b-1211b73b15;450;1060;2231b1122b1719e5430;1120;0;0;44b-2013b210b1801;1b-2016b214b1611;17b-1805b1883b113;2b-1996b1883b113;2b-2011b210b1801;9b-2041b339b1513;120b-1842b229b82b1720;0b-3487b1436b349b1701;432b-3484b1464b219b1802;39b-1986b1794b77;0b-1881b195b1609;2b-1804b195b1609;129b-3295b1496b1876b115;2b-1981b1869b112;2b-1981b180b1610;0b-1795b1873b113;33b-1986b266b1610b110;0b-2026b224b1610;32b-1789b1790b75;0b-1895b210b1801;3b-1991b1799b79;5b-3373b1460b224b1610;1b-1819b210b1801;12b-1991b1879b112;1b-1991b1799b77;1b-1881b1804b76;0b-1880b1804b76;30b-1885b200b81b1528;33b-3296b1477b210b1801e0;1b-2011b210b81b1720;7b-1981b1789b80;7b-1884b1883b113;0b-2001b281b1605b115e0;3b-2031b229b1802;1800;399b-1996b195b1609;29b-1789b1789b80;207b-1894b205b1609;90b123b71;248b-2053b349b1701;1b-1995b1883b113;23b-2006b205b1609;11b-1804b1882b114;3b-1991b190b1610;5b-1820b210b1801;0b-2031b229b1802;4b-1971b1780b81;2b-1881b1799b78;0b-1857b1780b78;11b-1878b1879b112;43b-2026b224b1610;0b-1799b190b1610;22b-1840b229b1802;69b-1996b1804b75;5b-1884b1809b75;1b-1879b1882b114;20b-3486b1460b224b1610;11b-1819b210b1801;565;109b-2036b313b1531;980b-1874b1874b43;1b-1917b1874b43;38b-3338b1446b320b1530e460;4b-1805b195b1610;0b-1800b1879b112;6b-2036b313b1531;17b-1879b1922b148;624;302;395;247b-2040b2029b12;1b-2041b2029b12;23b-2051b1859b107;2b-1961b1962b84;4b-2056b2042b14;1b-2071b1879b110;24b-1969b1859b178;5b-2032b1962b84e0;3b-2051b2038b13;0b-2061b1869b185;2b-2064b2063b8;2b-2056b1864b107;24;103;577;47;494b-1941b1915b111;24b-2036b1921b115;2b-3486b1440b244b1611;2b-1845b235b1609;227;27b-1869b2038b23;1357;620b-2046b1962b84;63b-2031b229b1802;12b-2011b210b1801;3b-1996b195b81b1529;2422;4;2;437$

Tank gearing strategies have given me problems in the past as well. I think the setup for the simulation is especially important, since the “NPS” metric that AMR uses for tanking depends heavily on the damage pattern used in the simulation. If you just select Krosus and run the sim as is, I’m not sure the fight is threatening enough to give a meaningful gear strategy. Changing the Mythic+ level in the “More Options” dialogue allows you to directly scale the simulated damage. I don’t know what a “good” setting for this is, as I do not tank in game, but I ran a couple to show you the difference.

M+0 (Default, 0.2% chance to die, ~440k NPS)
M+5 (+26% damage, 12.5% chance to die, ~400k NPS)
M+10 (+100% damage, 99.7% chance to die, ~185K NPS)

NPS is a metric that scales from 0 (no negation and 100% CtD) to 500k (100% Negation and 0% Chance to Die). If you are close to 500k, such as in the default Krosus scenario, there isn’t much room for the score to vary with gear changes, so the results will be as much noise as signal. This could lead to strange things like clear upgrades being assigned negative scores.

For example, if instead of Krosus, you simmed against Hogger, then you would have 0% chance to die and could easily mitigate all of his damage purely with FR. In that case, you can put on or take off gear and it won’t matter. In a statistical system with noise, the noise will then take over and give meaningless recommendations. In this case, base Krosus seems scarier than Hogger, but with a sim playing well and baseline healing, it’s really not a threat at all, so can give the same bad results.

I would suggest re-doing your gearing strategy while setting the M+ level to at least 6, probably a bit higher, something to give you an NPS of something in the middle of the 0-500k range. I have you at around 260k at M+7 Krosus, with a 67% chance to die, so that seems sufficiently threatening to give you better results. Going a bit higher might even be better, but someone with more experience in getting good in-game recommendations would be better for that level of advice.

I hope this helps you get better results from the Simulation Engine.

Thanks, great suggestion that makes sense. I’m going to re-run all at +8, as I’m aiming for Heroic and Mythic, and for my My+ runs I’m aiming at runs higher than +8 anyways.

If this is indeed the “correct” advice, it would seem this should be auto-scaled by gear level, better-explained, or maybe I just missed something, FWIW.

Thank you for the help. Off to cook my toaster’s CPU for a few hours.


Yeah I’m working on this quite a bit – making sure it is easy to keep the tank simulator in that “sweet spot” where the gearing strategies don’t get into the edges where margin of error is too high to distinguish between items. I hope to have a beta of the “version 2” tank gearing strategies within a few days. (They should also run a little faster.)

so, a question, if the sim is for “Guldan (H)”, which I assume means Heroic, then why do we need to adjust the damage at all? I’m 900ish bags, 890ish equipped, which is about right for H NH.

BTW I re-ran and got somewhat better results on mythic an Krosus using M+8 option, but SUPER wonky results on the Spellblade sim.

I really hope I’m unearthing significant user error issues, b/c this seems super not right.

Re-running again just in case I filled it out wrong. I am also running the Spellblade starting from “best in bags” for each of my current M+, Krosus and (wonky) spellblade strats, just to see if something looks right.

I’ve got like half the versatility I should have for this toon, and can’t understand why AMR is not chasing vers like a dog in heat…

Yellow, will these changes also evaluate more of the dps trinkets for tanking? I feel like there’s a few that I’ve tested (most notably Memento of Angerboda, which gets a decent amount of use from bears) that don’t show procs at all.

Yellow, Any chance of an update here? I might have missed it elsewhere.

Either auto-tuning, or giving us info and instructions for how to tune sims would be super helpful. Should I be using the M+ modifier? At 8, 10, 12…?

Possibly unrelated, but it seems it is pet of game design that ranks are relatively likely to stay alive, but can still tune meaningfully to help the raid. Tuning for self-healing, or agreesive active mitigation uptime (haste?) is constant melee fights vs “big hit” fights we just need to save up big CDs for. And there is nominal value to adding DPS to the equation (a dead boss is unlikely to kill us).

So, wondering if, once “alive” is coveted, will NPS start to consider these other factors? How, when, etc?

Thanks again!

Still working on it – we hope to have an update with all of the new healing and tank features we’ve been working on, sometime this week. This will enable the beta of “version 2” gearing strategies for tanks, and we’ll make a post with the details of everything that is included in that.