Shadowlands - Monk Discussion

Hi !
Starting this thread to keep track on the monk specs specially if i can found some interesting things that need changed in the rotation.

First things first, i’m gonna look into the mistweaver.
Using the default rotation and pretty mutch default settings for raid healing.

So idk what to think here, should the Essences be supported for the Pre-patch periode ? or not ?
For the time beeing i’m editing the rotation and removing any Essences calls.

Mistweaver - raid healing
I’m having trouble withthe spell InvokeChijiRedCraneBuff, it doesn’t seems to work.

I guess it’s because i’m doing somethings wrong here but none of the “invokechiji” and"invokechijibuff" doesn’t seems to what what i was looking for. I was looking to use envelopping mist with 3 stacks of the buff because when using the talent “invoke chi-ji, the red crane” we should see a lot more envelopping mist
In this one it’s only used once. I guess it will look into that later.

With your last comment i’m gonna let the “raid healing” for now on look into the MM+ one.
saved for later the rotation :

Mistweaver - MM+

Really late on this one but the only things i’ve found is the amont of heal done from Renewing Mist.
Compare to a Waycrest +20 on the live. Renewing mis seems lower. Not sure if it’s due to the script or the spell in the simulator itself.

We don’t support any azerite or essences in the shadowlands simulator. I think I forgot to make a new rotation for raid healing for mistweavers. I made it for mythic+ though, so you can test there for now.

1 Like

Mistweaver is still buggy in a lot of areas. Yu’lon is doing weird stuff on the beta - really like to heal itself, and soothing breath is proc’ing gust of mists (which I think is a bug) but usually only on itself.

Enveloping Breath isn’t happening at all with Chi-Ji and when Yu’lon casts it… doesn’t seem like it actually increases healing on targets. I’m not sure what the intent really even is there…

Looks like they did go to some effort to make fistweaving a real thing in Shadowlands though. Seems like it will be just as effective as more traditional healing from the back lines.

1 Like

You’ll have to tell me if you have any luck with Expel Harm. From the messing around I’ve done with it so far… it is rarely worth using. Seems like a bit of a trap button to me. They’ll have to reduce the mana cost or increase the healing for it to be really worth casting instead of Vivify.

Yeah this button is trap their is few nich where it can be used:

  • it’s a heal on the move
  • It allow to heal one specific target using smoothing heal
  • It allow to heal a target who doesn’t have renewing mist on it as well as yourself
  • it does dmg

So for a PVE mistweaver, those case are almost non existant.
The big point for this spells his the pvp used out of it. One of the big problem of mistweaver in pvp in case of heavy dmg on 2 targets the monk have difficulty to handle the situation. It help in this direction but i’m not an expert in pvp so…

Hi !

I’m looking into the windwalker right now; could you explain this to me :


Is this a residu from BFA rotation ? Or maybe i’m missing sometings

also i’m not really understanding :

“StormEarthAndFireFixate” is a custom buff for you how is it resulting ingame ? Make sure the littles ghost are not on the same target ?

Yeah I haven’t gone over the windwalker rotation in detail yet - touch of death is instant now so it doesn’t need that condition anymore.

That “fixate” spell is a spell for when you press the button again after you summon them to make them all attack your current target. There is a conduit or something that gives you a buff when you make them fixate, so I added in a spell to simulate that behavior.

1 Like

Hi again !
Thanks for the previous answers.

  1. One point i’ve dig into and could possibly be validated using the simulation.
    Using Touch of Death on target under 15% but that have more health than you is a dps loss
    In other terme, you need to wait till the target is <maxplayerHP to get a touch of death to hit for almost maxplayerhp or as close as.
    Currently if i use touch of death on target <15% hp i hit for 7k if i wait till the target have less than 20k hp (my max hp currently) i will hit between 10k and 19k depending on how fast i can trigger it.

  2. The function PowerSecToMax used in the current rotation.
    While i understand how it’s supposed to work it seems very complicated to convert In Game. Maybe it will be less true, but more usable to state somethings like : “energy to max < 10”. Energy regen depend on haste but does it has a real impact ? (like if you have a gear full of haste does it really change to "energy to max < 11) ?
    But may it will need at least a split with or without the buff from the talent “Energizing Elixir”.
    I know nothing about rogue that use energy too does they more to take in consideration than haste and some buff ?

I am only simulating the version of Touch of Death versus “stronger” targets, not targets that can be killed instantly if they have less health than you. So in the simulator it always does 35% of your max hp as damage.

As far as translating PowerSecToMax into something you can use in-game… you could probably use an approximation and be fine. I find when I’m playing that it is something that I eventually get a feel for. During bloodlust, you will regen at least 13 energy/sec with no other source of haste, so you’d at least need a condition to handle that. Haste procs and buffs can further change it. You can obtain your current energy regen in-game with a function the game has, so you should be able to use it in a formula if you’re trying to make a weak aura or something similar.

1 Like

As far as i tested the Touch of Death enven on “stronger” targets you can hit for 20k (less than the player max hp) and not be limited to the 35% of the player max hp. Meaning when the spell light up IG it doesn’t mean we should use it actually, we should wait till the boss has less than 20k hp.
The only problem is : on single target when everyone is hitting the boss it means 80k dmg per sec. so you have litterally less than 0.2s to be able to hit the boss for the full 20k so litterally not humanly not possible.
In the other hand in multi targets at max you have 20k/s dps on one target. Which is possible to snipe the good one and do the full 20k on them.

You’ve conviced me to do the custom trigger for my WA. It wasn’t very long to do, just had to found the good function in lua.

Yeah, you could mess around and try to snipe a tad more damage when a mob is about to die. That’s just meter-padding for fun though :wink:

Yeah if it increase for 0.2% dps it doesn’t matter.

If at some point you come back to the Rotation for Windwalker. I’ve done a “rotation helper” based on the current state.

I tried it on 4 targets dummy.

  1. Somethings that i’ve found quite akward was the loop in where i could keep at least 3 stacks of Cyclone Strikes to use Spinning Crane Kick and right away Tiger Palm. The loop turn around 0 to 2 chi and back again with a few downtime due to energy regen. So no Fist of Fury for a LONG time (i had no DPS azerith trait on me except stats; heart of darkness). Maybe it’s optimal idk but it fell weird.

  2. One other point is outside of this loop, the PowerSecToMax < 1 that we discuss earlier, work fine except when the last spell used is Fist of Fury. During the channeling of First of fury energy can get wasted like before Fist of Fury i wasn’t low enough. Maybe if put to “<4s” (the channeling time) it mean we will always be on the bottom the to energy before doing Fist of Fury?

  3. Apprently we could use Expel Harm before pull to start with 1 chi. Haven’t tested anythings with it yet

Dont hesitate to ping me after you did the second pass on monk dps :stuck_out_tongue:

I was just playing around with the aoe rotation some - I think it will still be optimal to save chi when fists of fury is ready - but it makes surprisingly little difference.

Expel Harm is a weird one… technically I think using it as part of your normal rotation will slightly increase DPS (like 0.5% - 1%)… but I have a hard time recommending anyone to play like that. Talk about not fun.

1 Like

Another thing to keep in mind is that SEF has some wacky bugs right now on beta… I haven’t taken the time to model them in the exact state they are currently in, since it will be a huge pain in the ass. I have them working “correctly” for the most part, which is going to make them do a lot more damage than they do in-game. Once we get near shadowlands release… i’ll have to update them with whatever bugs aren’t going to get fixed.

1 Like

Been working on mistweavers… For raid healing, I’m finding the spec to be severely mana-limited. To the point that I’m seeing better results by cutting soothing mist out of the spell usage completely just to avoid the mana cost. If I pick jade serpent statue I use it to keep the statue going on the tank, but that’s about it.

Rising Mist is crushing the other level 50 talents because it is mana-efficient healing, which the spec desperately needs. I don’t know if they plan to adjust mistweaver mana costs or not… but I think they should consider reducing their mana costs a bit based on what I’m seeing right now.

The default fight length is still 325 ? Like is the current script right ?
Their is no “mana indicator level” in the result of pages which is sad to look into the mana consumption :cry:.

Sure it’s quite mana intensive but in logs it doesn’t seems to be “that” mana intensive compare to other class…
I’ve looked into raid mythic testing logs to see a trend so try to understand what is happening. Most of the log are using the BFA build where we used Refreshing Jade Wind + Essence Font out of habit.
Their is one that got my eye on Broker curator. The heal named “Eljoker” has the same active time as the other heal but isn’t oom as fast. They have the same build, the same legendary. One big differnce is the covenant choosen. One does have one, the other doesn’t have it.

What are this inspiring me :

How i see it :
Changing the gameplay to a soothing mist use for single target that required medium healing (not vivify as we were use to before) and use vivify only for heavy aoe healing using renewing cleave.
So maybe taking down vivify and up soothing mist ?

Or take the strengh of “Grounding Breath” and only use vivify on self ?

I’m going to look at this maybe later this week.

Her are some of the log i’ve looked at:

  1. Huntsmans:
    9 min fight but a low performer as Mistweaver

  2. Shriekwing:
    5min fight with a good performer that got oom before all other healer

  3. Hungering Destroyer:
    3 min wipe 50% of the way done with good performer that got oom; propably due to mechanics
    3 min fight 58% healers got oom
    Same fight but this one doesn’t get oom; he is using Rising Mist

  4. Kael’thas :
    5 min fight 45% done pretty mutch oom

  5. Broker Curator Mythic:
    Very interesting two monk one got oom the other not not using vivify at all almost

  6. The Concil of Blood:
    is undertuned lots of kill during raid testing so not worst log

  7. Lady inverva darkvein:
    Gameplay classic 5min48 fight - heavy essence font and vivify
    Same here

  8. Sludgefist:
    This boss seems overtuned and i dont see any logs that i find interesting

Yeah I’ll have to check it out - if they’re almost never using vivify… wonder what they are preferring TFT uses on? Renewing Mist to make it a much more mana-efficient spell?

For Rising Mist build I’d assume it gets used with RSK.

Usually I use TFT charges on Vivify to offset the steep mana costs.

I haven’t posted updated rotations yet, but I’m seeing good use in raids from Yu’lon now with Enveloping Breath actually working, such that I’m prioritizing using mana on Enveloping Mist during the cooldown to get a lot out of it. Seems pretty good actually.

1 Like

I’ll post an update soon… spent some more time with this today. Reducing vivify use to mostly with mana-reducing effects (TFT, mana tea, lifecyles) gives me better results. I made the condition to use it without a mana-reducing buff more restrictive.

I’m also still seeing Yu’lon’s Enveloping Breath turning into a really big cooldown. Saving up a bunch of mana and spamming Enveloping Mist all over the place is really strong. I don’t know how smart Enveloping Breath will be in raids… right now I’m assuming it prefers targets that don’t already have it… but I’m not sure if that is the case or not. I also don’t know how practical it will be in raids because they might have to be pretty close to you, but we often group up during raid cooldowns anyway.

Chi Ji is kind of odd… enveloping breath is making it so that I’m finding better results by making use of enveloping breath than maximizing rsk, bok, and sck uses.

1 Like

In BFA, i prefer use TFT with Renewing Mist (to get more haste with azerith). It was more an habit than a real reason; could be interesting to simulate it later to see if their is an actual comparaison?

Yeah, it was the cast at the start of BFA too, where mana was mutch more of an issue, maybe it will be the case here too ?

Yep i really like this new passif; but for the few test i’ve done in the oribos, the hot isn’t smart as mutch. on full life targets, it cleave on the closest targets and you can’t have multiple hots. Meaning, it will refresh early the hot and not apply the typical “Pandemic” thing (more test is needed for this).
update: It actually does apply the pandemic but for 1/6 of the time not 1/3 like i’m use to; you probably have more infos on this. It’s a 6s hot and if refreshed you can push to 7s the buff (not 1 + 1/3 = 8s). It mean that we can use 2 back to back; it cover 12 ppl at best but it’s not possible to do the 3rd cast and be sure to hit 18 ppl.

One things that i was thinking was a bug, but doesn’t seems to be, is the fact that Blackout kick event due to Teaching of the Monastery was giving stacks for Chi-ji. Meaning that using Palm Kickx1 + Blackout Kickx1 give 3 stacks of Chi-ji. In other terms, it take 2 GCD instead of 3 to have an instant Envoloping Mist.
Also, i find it weird that outside of Bloodlush effect, using 2 stacks of the chi-ji spell (meaning casting Envoloping Mist with 66% reduction of cast time) is faster than waiting for the 3rd stack for a full 100% reduction cast time.

One last things i was using in MM+ keys, is getting the 3 stacks of Teach of the Monastery, is actually i loss both in HPS and in DPS. I generally only using 1. Tiger Palm => Blackout Kick => Tiger Palm (if Rising Sun Kick first if reseted or if available)