TBC - Retribution, Intellect and mana

I see, that amr very likely replace items to that ones with int or mp5, so i must ask about one thing.

How exactly you calculate mana gain for us?

We have mana back from Sanctified Judgement and Spiritual Attunement. Commonly we trying to avoid any damage taken, but its rather impossible as melee. Also SoB and SotM give use great opportunity for free mana back (during twist even often). Then runes, potions, mana totem, JoW…

By just using seals, judgementm, CS and AW (core skills) in correct raid team ret should be oom after ~15 min, when with cons and exorcism (fillers) we can burn all mana in 2 minutes. Anyway only bad ret in good raid composition hasn’t mana for core skills to maintain 90% of overall dps and i don’t think, that this mana items are worth to keep fillers up.

The calculations use “leftover” mana on consecration as a filler. If the fight is long enough that the calculations find you mana-limited, consecration won’t be used at all.

I know that paladins can get some mana from spiritual attunement… but that is really impossible for me to predict. You’re better off optimizing with a shorter fight length if you are not worried about your mana pool - it will get you the results you are looking for.

The mana gains you get in our calculations are all from the settings that you see visible which return mana.

That aren’t small values. As melee we take a lot of unwanted damage that is converted into mana. On avg Karazan we can get 40% of mana back just from Spiritual Atonement on all boss encounters in very optimal conditions and probably even more, if we include trash. That can’t be something, that we can avoid in our calculations.

From top3 logs on kara:
Starforce: 9600 mana back - 40%
Baranor: 27 000 mana back - 32%
Jßn: 16 000 mana back - 30%

I didn’t found any log, that hasn’t less than 30% mana back from SA. Are rets just that bad, or they are masochists to get free mana back? XD

unwanted intellect items i can always exclude, but unwanted gems i can’t xD

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We also have mana coming back from seal of blood/martyr causing us some damage.

That’s external healing even without taking a single point of avoidable/random target damage. The heal received from spiritual attunement should be considered as mana regen at least for the self inflicted damage of martyr.

Mana back from seals can be calculated, but how do you want to calculate mana back from damage taken, if you aren’t a tank? that require to prepare simulations of every boss fight… Baranor for example do not include mana into ret rotation. we have infinite mana and we can use full rotation all the time. we have just info how long we can maintain full dps in seconds (what is helpful). In most of encounters ret have so much mana back, that our mana bar is nearly full all the time (3 min full dps, 25 min without cons/exe), so we can focus on dps from gear, when intellect and mp5 are not even secondary stats. It’s just useful trash.

That method is like. “we can give you ultimate weapon, but you need to manage it”

problem is when you have suboptimal raid composition like me and i can oom with full dps in the middle of the fight. then im just use rule - keep seal, judge, cs, aw on cd, use cons / exe wisely (or never) and wait for better times, because i know, that with core skills i can’t oom and fillers aren’t necessary to cast them.

For me the best best option to solve that issue is to set duration to 60-90 sec. i don’t believe that amr can oom us in 60-90 sec and haste shouldn’t be too overpower.