Unbound Force Vs Conflict and Strife


I know there is another post by a bm hunter here about this, but I seem to be confused why unbound force is being chose over Conflict and strife. I’ve run sim after sim, with almost every option and gear sets, and it always says conflict is higher dps. In wow, i’ve also tested both on multiple mythic bosses and seem to come out ahead with conflict. I’m averaging 3-4 procs of reckless in a 5-7 minute fight. I’ve alread excluded unbound force but then it recommends essence of the focusing iris, which also sims lower than conflict… I’m really not sure if i should just lock in conflict, but unfortunately it then locks out my other two minor slots so i can’t really build around conflict either.
Any guidance or maybe there is something i’m missing? Should I be holding cooldowns til i’m close to proc time?
Anyways i’ll appreciate whatever amount of time you look at this.

More information. every sim(In amr and other places) I have run has shown conflict as a dps upgrade, So i guess my question is what is the best in bags assuming information on? Is it possible to make best in bags choose a certain fight script and settings? I know the gearing strategy of the past helped this information, but it feels like best in bags isn’t matching up with all of my sims done both in amr and abroad.

Single target sim with Unbridled fury and no augment rune, and nothing else changed

Single Target with no changes to default simulation.

Training Dummy - Dps no changes

And then the BIB recommendation

I’ve also experienced that AMR likes UF over CnS on DH. And trying to lock out UF changes another of your minor into UF, but every sim puts CnS over UF lol. But I haven’t seen a solution about it. I am curious tho as to why you capped your corruption at 49 instead of 59? (since 59 is the break-point until a new affix)

my healers appreciate not losing half my health when the thing from beyond hits me lmao, also the change from 49-59 isnt a huge enough dps increase to risk. If i were to get a couple gushing wounds perhaps, but as of to date, my hunter has 4 gushing wounds, my demonhunter has 0…

Ahh, yea, I get that. I use Demonic Appetite build, so I self-heal from all the free orbs and I never notice my health dip when I get hit by a TFB. But yea, I can understand that since you still using FB+DB build.

I think a big part of the issue here is how close in value all these options are. Also keep in mind that for your batch simulations - those aren’t a perfect comparison of those different options because you’d actually have to change around your gems and enchants for each setup to get a true comparison.

The total DPS number with all these different combos of minor essence are all going to be within about 1% of each other. The optimizer is finding you a solution within 1% of the theoretical simulated maximum. That’s really good, in our opinion. You would never notice a difference in-game given enough trials. Like we talked about before - unbound tends to be highly variable in real-game situations so it’s hard to realize the theoretical value of it.

In this case I’d just lock in the minor essences you prefer - they really are so close in value that it won’t affect you from a theoretical dps standpoint. The combo the optimizer finds is within 1% of anything we’d find manually, so the optimizer is doing its job.

We are continuously working on ways to improve the optimizer - we’ve been doing a lot of thinking on that for moving forward into shadowlands. The gear really got insane here in BfA with all the different game systems (azerite, talents, essence, corruption) that interact. I’m not trying to be dismissive of a 1% difference - just trying to put it in perspective as far as what a gear optimizer can be expected to do. Our optimizer smooths out simulation data so we can give consistent answers, but you might be able to tweak thinks and find a particular data point slightly higher than what the optimizer picks sometimes.

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Well I understand that. Like in a perfectly procced window of DPS unbound would come out on top, but perhaps something isnt working right on my end because when I lock in conflict and strife and blood of the enemy it recommends the very same gear, enchants, corruption, etc. As the crucible and unbound force bib recommend, so I assumed it was a true comparison.
Before I decided to post I tried clearing browser cache and history, doesn’t seem to be a graphical error. I’ve tried changing my accuracy on the simulator.
So what I’m hearing is that unbound force if procced just right could lead to a DPS increase.
Perhaps a solution to weird conundrums like this, would be allowing best in bags to choose the highest DPS with the lowest amount of deviation?
For example
If unbound force gives me 120k Max DPS, but could range from 80k-120k
And conflict gives me Max 110k but ranges 90k-110k, it would favor, or allow us the option to choose the most consistent DPS, vs a completely unreliable or unmanageable Max DPS.

Anyways, I appreciate you taking the time to answer and even with some analysis as to why.

@aleksonfire I don’t think perfect procs enter into it at all just the results are very close to each other and so hard to pick the best one when evaluating many other choices at the same time.

The optimizer doesn’t run a sim for every combination so some error is expected and in all your tests the absolute error is less than 1% and that error is approximately 1/10 of the standard deviation.

Which means that in game rng is going have a greater impact than this gear choice approximitely 92% of the time