When looking at the upgrade finder, the “Dark Storm Gauntlets” from C’thun are showing as a 0% upgrade, even though they are better in pretty much every way from what I’m currently using:
Is it calculating the fire power enchant as not applying to the “ugprade” and that’s why it says 0%? Can I tell the upgrade finder to just consider the new item to have the exact same enchants…? Else how can I trust anything the upgrade finder shows me lol
The upgrade finder will always enchant gear when it ranks it.
I think the issue might be some filtering going on based on the current release phase of classic servers. I’m going to make a change today (or might not be able to publish it until tomorrow, depends on how long it takes to test it) to make the phase filtering more configurable. Especially for classic this matters because there are multiple servers that can potentially be at different phases.
I’ll let you know when the change goes live and it should resolve this issue.
Ah weird, when I check “Ignore Phases” in BiB and then optimize that, and then use the upgrade finder, it seems to be showing DSG with the correct upgrade %?
Which is weird because the “currently released phase” includes all of classic content right now on anniversary servers, maybe it should have an option to select which phase you’re in? The Best in Slot finder has that option, but not “Best in Bags”.
I was wondering why it was never suggesting firepower enchant to gloves unless i locked the option in place lol.
Yeah that’s what I did – we just updated the site. We removed the “ignore phases” option and added a picker for the phase in Best in Bags. That should gives users more control no matter which server they are playing on.
The Upgrade Finder will use the settings of the Best in Bags configuration for which you are finding upgrades, chosen on the left side of the Upgrade Finder.
even though it’s better in every way. Every single stat is higher, what’s up with that? When i look for “best in bags”, selecting only ZG, then it equipped the ZG shoulder over the scarlet one…. But in the upgrade finder says it’s worse.
This issue is being caused by something different – we’ll take a look at it. It seems that the scoring function is hitting a weird break point with mana regen causing a discontinuity that needs to be smoothed out to get a better ranking.
looks like it’s working now! I like a good technical explanation, what was the specific reason this was happening? Just outta curiosity Was the “specific combinations of gear” == “really god-awful gear” lol
btw i know your classic optimizer probably isn’t exactly your most lucrative product, but I’m really glad you support it. I’ve always preferred a good gear optimizer, like rawr way back in 2005. I don’t see as many people mentioning AMR these days tho
This issue turned out to just be a minor coding error that wouldn’t come into play except in specific scenarios with special item effects that modify the power cost of spells. There was one spot where it wasn’t getting reset properly between scoring different sets of gear, causing a very minor bias to creep in as more and more combos were tested. Finding the error was way harder than fixing it, so we really appreciate it when people post snapshots of errors.
I loved rawr! It was one of the things that inspired us to make AMR 15 years ago now. And yeah we are just two people working to keep up with retail and also maintain classic, so we never seem to have time to reach out to the community and do promotion like we used to when we had a third person.
We’re hoping to get ahead of things a bit more with Midnight around the corner and do some more promotion though – we are glad that you appreciate a good gear optimizer! A lot of people don’t realize that there is a big difference between what you can do with a gear optimizer vs. a simulator simply because it’s so much faster, allowing you to examine orders of magnitude more gear combinations to find optimal solutions.
I use a different mathematical model for classic healers than I do for retail. I’m able to treat them differently because there is no haste stat in classic. That is a huge deal for modeling a class.
If you go to the “customize” tab and turn on the “Healer Spell Breakdown”, you’ll see the default set of rules we optimize around. Most people don’t know about that feature - I encourage people to log their own raids and set this breakdown to something that looks close to your own logs, to get the best advice for your specific play style.
The bug you were running into was actually a bit of a flaw in my logic. It was so small that it was hard to notice without a specific example. In the calculations, I need to figure out if you will be mana-limited or time-limited for the spell breakdown being used. I was first checking how many spells you could cast with the mana available, then adjusting if there wasn’t enough time to do it. But, the calculation I was using to adjust the number of casts of each spell was not working quite right, resulting in a spell breakdown that didn’t follow the rules for the spell breakdown.
I wrote this code… 5 years ago? And it was adapted from an old spreadsheet I had made for healers to use to calculate optimal stats. I was able to go in and use some of the techniques I’ve created since then to update the code (and i updated all the classic healers). Now I’m calculating how many of each spell you can cast with the time available and breakdown specified. If you then do not have enough mana, I adjust the number of spells cast proportional to the mana expenditure of each spell. This avoids any situation that could change the desired spell breakdown.
In the classic version of the optimizer, since there is no haste, we can treat the spell breakdown as an input. After haste was introduced to the game, we can’t do it like this anymore, as changing the haste stat also changes the spell breakdown.
I found another weird situation! Hope you don’t mind me bringing all these up in the same thread haha.
In this snapshot: ff3eee917ff1497b8e8a586379f38d6d
I did an upgrade finder for every boss in every raid… “Jin’do’s Bag of Whammies” is reporting as a… 17.04% upgrade? That seems high compared to other ZG items, especially considering I’m healing
If you scroll down to Jin’dos’ Evil Eye… it says -0.05%?? that’s 18 spell power versus 44.
If instead, in the raid finder, I go back and find upgrades only in ZG, bag of whammies changes to +1.26% (why would changing the raid selections make this decrease by 16%?) and evil eye is still -0.05%.
I think the optimizer does something weird with offhands when i have a staff equipped or something, but it’s unclear to me what it’s doing (and regardless I would think evil eye would ALWAYS rate higher)
Similarly Jin’do’s Hexxer changes from +4.13% when searching upgrades in all raids, to 1.61% when searching only ZG upgrades.
;
Edit: ok i’m dumb, jin’do’s evil eye is a neck, i don’t know why i thought it was an offhand. I still find the ranking and changing of % of whammies a little confusing though, there ain’t no way it’s considered more of an upgrade than “scepter of the false prophets”, a MH from AQ40 with 187 heal power. Is the optimizer pairing the offhand with the best mainhand it can find in the results… instead of any given mainhand i have available in my bank/bags?
I believe the upgrade finder will pair off hands with the best main hand available, to give them an appropriate ranking compared to two-handed options. @yellowfive wrote that code - he really, really, hates dealing with mh/oh vs 2h. It ends up getting very complicated.
I’ll take a look – it will generally pair with the best option available in the list. In theory it should also include your inventory… but it’s possible that is an enhancement we added to the retail site since we wrote the classic site. If so I’ll see if we can bring it over to the classic version without too much trouble.
Ranking one-handed weapons and off-hands for casters is always going to be a little ambiguous when you have a two-handed weapon currently equipped. The only way to give it a reasonable ranking is to pair it with some appropriate item.
Generally we pair it with the best ranking item of equal or lower item level in the other slot. It looks like for the upgrade finder it is using your search criteria instead though… so if you are allowing all items from all raids, it will pair an off-hand with the best weapon showing in the list (and vice-versa). We can change it to use the item level restricted logic and I think that will give more the result that people expect.
It’s still not a perfect solution, but it’s about as good as you can do until Blizzard sees The Light and realizes how terrible a mistake they made by allowing multiple weapon slots and weapon configurations for some specs, and in a frenzy of remorse, goes through every version of WoW and retroactively changes it to have a single weapon slot for everyone. Then millions of players will rejoice as this Blight has been lifted from their gaming lives.
I can see how it’s a hard problem to solve. My mage, for instance, ONLY has the AQ40 two-hand and doesn’t have any viable 1h or OH options; so I’m not even sure what the “right” thing for the optimizer to do in this case even is. And my priest at this point just got benediction, so it’s weird for it to be suggesting crappy offhands, but at the same time there are offhands from AQ40 I should be aiming for to upgrade from it.
It now appears to be ranking things more sensibly when I search for every item from every raid; but my use-case is probably a-typical since I’m exporting the full list to a spreadsheet to do my own soft-reserve calculations.
I think your item level restriction logic makes sense, assuming that it also includes any item you might have in the bank (?).
Was the “specific combinations of gear” == “really god-awful gear” lol
