Weird issues with BiB for a Vengeance DH

So, with the new spirit bomb changes… amr has gone really weird.

There’s another topic Vengeance DH Default Rotation - #5 by Swol that sort of mentions a few things…

But, soul cleave seems to be valued far, far higher than it should be so AMR makes some questionable gearing recommendations. While yes, you should use soul cleave if you’re getting low, you don’t use it nearly enough to value t19 4p or even t20 4p.

I’ve tried using the Blender and even simming with a modified apl to never soul cleave and yet… AMR still recommends using t19 and t20 4p bonuses for an ability that you just don’t particularly hit often. And I say that as someone who runs keys currently in the 17 range in time.

Is or will there be a way to blacklist certain gear so that I can avoid this situation?

I’m not sure if this should be another thread, but I also run into a weird issue with specifying specific gear to keep on, namely the legendary pants for the extra charge of both empowered wards and demon spikes, and what AMR seems to do is… simply say not to wear any pants, and tells me to wear 2 of my rings. If I specify 2 specific legendaries (e.g. pants and the fragment of the betrayer) it will simply say to use Fragment, not wear any pants, and use sephuz.

I don’t know enough about AMR’s internals, and how to go through to see what is going on, but something about VDH simming just seems really off, and some things are simply not valued much at all.

Going through the above mentioned post…

This is incorrect - it may have been true at the initial time of the poster posting, but currently it does stack, it doesn’t show that there are 2-3 stacks, however, if you check the damage numbers, the amount of damage being done does go up (admittedly it’s a bit weird as I don’t believe the double damage lasts the entire time that the sigil is refreshed for, but I haven’t looked closer.

I also agree with this - I’m not sure what is up with trinkets, and while they are for the most part okay, the simming of them just seems… off. I’m also not sure that KJ’s trinket is being used optimally in the APL for it, but unfortunately, I don’t have the ability to explain how I mean, all I know is that when I use it, taking care to not use it to reduce the cooldown if the cooldown reduction is too high (e.g. if I somehow have 10 stacks and say, 30 seconds left on the cooldown of meta, simply use it to extend FbP’s meta proc instead) - in m+ I generally have about a 60% uptime of metamorphosis, using the trinket well is key, but it’s definitely not easy to do so.

I dunno, something as of the 7.2.5 and new gearing strategies just seems really off with VDH.

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When you lock in an item, a dotted line will show up around it. A “save and update” button also pops up above the gear table. You need to click on that button to then re-calculate Best in Bag around your locked in items. If you are seeing blank slots… I’m not sure how that is happening.

Do you have a link to the custom gearing strategy you made with a rotation that does not use soul cleave at all? I would expect that to not favor t19 as much.

I did some work on the vengeance rotation for 7.2.5. I found that more liberal use of soul cleave was really the key to staying alive when using fracture. Without that, the chance to die was just sky-rocketing. If you have a rotation that uses much less soul cleave and doesn’t have significantly higher death chance at tough content levels, I’d like to see it for sure.

I did update the rotation to make better use of Archimonde’s Hatred. The timing on KJ’s Burning Wish won’t really matter that much (other than saving it for AoE), since it does not scale with any damage multipliers.

I will see if I can find some logs to see how the DoT may or may not stack for Sigil of Flame.

I’m definitely hitting save and update. That said, I can’t always get it to do so, and I think it may have to do with doing an import after locking them in (e.g. realizing i just opened my chest and got a 930 ring, should i switch to it… do the import and the BiB changes to remove the pants for some reason)

I’m not extremely familiar with the site, is there a way to get the custom gearing strategy link? I used this rotation Not Available which is simply everything in soul cleave disabled and ‘if HealthPercent < 0.5’ enabled. The only other change was only using Spirit Bomb when there are >= 5 soul fragments. And it definitely favors the 4p bonus over anything else no matter what strategy I use.

I have very few oh shit moments, even in mythic+ up to 17 in 7.2.5, I use Soul Cleave maybe… once a dungeon, and typically that’s because I fat fingered it. About the only fight I use soul cleave with regularity is Kil’Jaeden (all difficulties), so I’m not sure why the chance to die was sky rocketing.

Here is a Sister of the Moon kill from yesterday that I did with some friends in their PUG - Warcraft Logs - Combat Analysis for Warcraft is my SoF damage.

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And another bit of weirdness…

I had the Achor (DPS chest) in Void Storage (seemed to be the only way to get AMR to ignore gear), and when I got it out because I want to upgrade all my legendaries to 970… it wanted me to use Achor in my tank setup. Stats wise, I can understand why, but the equip is useless considering VDH doesn’t have blur.

So I locked in a different chestpiece… and it wanted me to switch to wearing the memebeam helm? Hello? I get that stats are important, but c’mon… and I checked and I do have Vengeance on top in my spec priority, in case it was trying to gear me for Havoc, and it isn’t.

I believe the BiB feature currently doesn’t have any weightings for the Legendary abilities - so it’s just working out stat balances.

Just lock in the two legendaries you want, and it’ll work out your best (or near best) stat balance around them.

Best in Bags does have values for legendaries – it just has a higher margin of error than picking other gear. We’re very close to releasing a new gearing strategy technique that is much better at picking legendaries, and adapting to your current talent build. We’ll make an announcement, you won’t be able to miss it.

See the part in my initial thread where I lock in 2 legendaries and it has me unequip one and leaves the equipment slot blank.

I’ll wait for the new gearing stuff to show up and try again, but for now, I don’t really trust the gearing strategies anymore.

It shouldn’t do that – can you give me the data to reproduce it leaving a slot blank? An addon export from the game, and a link to any custom gearing strategy you are using, with steps to reproduce (what you locked in, etc.).

I had locked in using Fragment of the Betrayer, and Oblivion’s Embrace.

When I would hit save and update, it would unequip the Oblivion’s Embrace and equip Sephuz and Fragment of the Betrayer.

At this point, I’ve sold a bunch of gear, so now those are the two that it recommends (which is good) although it still recommends 4p T19, which I disagree with and think the simulator is over-weighting (if that’s even a word) soul cleave.

That said, if I do the default AMR magic with

Then the BiB says I should use Raddon’s (DPS legendary) and Prydaz, I would expect Prydaz and the Cloak. Due to the simulator changes that are supposed to be coming soon, I’ve deleted all my custom strategies because even if I go through and completely disable soul cleave in the simulator, and run a sim, it still recommended using t19 over any other gear… which makes no sense because i have higher ilevel gear with the same stats as the tier pieces… so the only thing I can think is there is some kind of weighting going on to the tier set bonus, that is somehow still being applied even though I’ve told it to never use soul cleave.

So you made a custom rotation with no soul cleave, then ran a custom gearing strategy, and it still likes the bonus? Can you link me to the gearing strategy that you ran?

I deleted them after seeing the comment about new gearing strategies coming.

I can either re-run the sim, and re-do it, or if you happen to have a way to recover one that I’ve deleted, it was on this account,and it was called “Mythic+ - NoSoulCleave”

The rotation I used is - Not Available - which, I just double checked and everything related to Soul Cleave is disabled, and Spirit Bomb should only be used ‘if BuffStack(SoulFragment) >= 5’

Oh hey, that’s my post!

Yeah, DH Rotation has changed a lot.

However, the Soul Cleave rotation is still in use for progression raiding, especially in Mythic. The survivability that it offers when paired with the T20 4 piece is, at least, something to consider.

That is to say, Soul Cleave is still fairly awful. I know twojumps (currently the furthest progressed Veng DH, I believe) still uses it just because of its survivability factor, but I cannot attest for the worth of such a strategy.

I dunno that twojump is the furthest progressed, but according to this list (strictly DPS metric of course); he’s 9th on the list. There are others who have also killed Desolate Host on the list.

The top 8 all take spirit bomb over feldev.

I understand the survivability factor of soul cleave, and I use it when I can’t trust my healers or co-tank, but for the most part, it’s not needed.

Twojumps was the first Veng DH to progress that far. He has not killed maiden yet, though.

For pure world-first progression, his build make sense.

I’m just saying there’s more options than you think.

Absolutely, all I’m saying is that a non-soul cleaving build shouldn’t be valuing the 4p bonuses… for soul cleave.

The sims are odd, and don’t seem to be taking into account numbers properly.