When can we expect accurate recommendations? By using and checking with Simulationcraft, it is clear that many of the gear recommendations are clearly wrong. Will this be fixed any time soon?
Unless Blizzard have published any articles to say that any given Race/Class/Specialisation MUST have a āset-in-stoneā stat.-spend/priority &/or gear set, even Simulationcraft is ājust a guessā.
Many players get set in their ways over one specific character optimisation method & find any recommendation that deviates from their usual mantra to be an āaffrontā.
It might be a good idea to ask yourself, ādid I come to AMR to look for opinion or bias confirmation?ā; if it was the latter, I would expect that you hoped that AMR was a variant of what you are already used toā¦ sadly that is not how AMR works.
AMR is a unique optimiser that will factor in ALL stat.'s of correctly possible gear & Talent options to reach a recomendation of how to gear your character; it does NOT work on 'you MUST have this gear set & build" & stick rigidly to that doctrineā¦ it offers flexibility. That saiid, if you are not accustomed to said flexibility, then you will come unstuck.
If the results you were given were not what you expected, can I suggest that you simply reject them & move onā¦? If you are open & looking to add/assimilate the offered results into your own appraissal, then a more diplomatic approach to how the site works will get you a lot further with itsā community &/or creators.
Welcome to the site; please enjoy your stay if you choose to do so.
I meant no disrespect and apologize if it came across that way. Iāve been using AMR for over a decade, starting back when it was free. When the subscription model was introduced, I signed up almost immediately and have always considered it fantastic value. Back then, I was a hard-core raider and relied on AMR for gearing and stats. I stopped raiding at that level during Shadowlands but kept my subscription because I still saw the value. Around that time, my son, who was 16 when Shadowlands launched, had just started working and took over the hard-core raiding role. We share a Battle Net account, but he has his own profile, and he valued AMR enough to get his own subscription as soon as he could. During Covid, my wife also got her own AMR sub, and weāve all felt itās worth having separate subscriptions just to support what we believe is a great product.
I am an alt-o-holic with 30+ level 80s, and 6 level 90s. For health reasons, playing WOW offers a distraction from real life issues.
My son is a Mythic+ raider and already has 4 270 / 280 + item level alts.
My wife also likes her alts but sticks mainly to PvP with her Mage and Warlock.
Iām willing to provide proof of what Iāve said, but Iād prefer to share it privately if necessary.
I never meant to insult or offend. I was simply asking an honest question, hoping for a civil and constructive response. In all the years Iāve used AMR, this is the first time Iāve found its results to be at odds with reality. I understand thereās no perfect solution to gearing, but many of the suggestions seem clearly wrong, even without nit-picking through SimulationCraft. I genuinely value AMR and would like to work together to resolve what appears to be an issue with the calculations or results. If you feel Iām wrong to seek help in solving this, please say so, and Iāll take my business elsewhere.
Regards
Bloodsmite - Moonglade - EU
Do you have a specific example where you think the recommendations are incorrect? We are always testing and tweaking, but in general all specs should be in a pretty good place, and in our tests we are seeing pretty similar results to combat logs and other sources out on the internet.
That said, our site does tend to find slightly different solutions in some cases because the result is completely customized to your particular situation and gear available to you.
The easiest way to talk about a specific example is to provide a snapshot by clicking the āhelpā link next to the big āBest in Bagsā section header and copying the generated 32-digit code here. Then we can see exactly how you have it set up. And also let us know what you expect to see compared to what you are seeing.
1 Like
**Iāve linked what you asked below, plus the export code from the addon. It seem to me that the +versatility selection for stat is just wrong. Iāve tested DPS on dummies and the items Iāve equipped offer about 6% more DPS that the recommendation offered. Only by selecting āforce tier setā can I make the results make sense.
If Iāve missed something, or Iām doing something wrong, please show me where Iām going wrong.
50a396d256b249988024ebcde0d24a34
**
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**
I have looked at beast mastery extensively, because I did notice there is a difference between our simulation and simcās. I found some small things I updated to be slightly more accurate, but nothing that will move the needle in the optimizer.
First, the 4pc bonus. I think it is weak, especially for your build. Most of the value of the bonus will come from the Wildspeaker talent. Dire Beast autos are a very small portion of your damage, if they arenāt doing kill commands, that set bonus is not going to be worth caring about. If you change your build to include Wildspeaker, you wonāt have to force the set bonus, itāll pick it.
The other thing I have noticed is that our optimizer doesnāt like haste very much. There are some pretty technical reasons this could be happening, but generally i see top hunters using a lot of mastery and then crit/haste, with the edge going to crit. Our optimizer likes crit/mastery. I could go into the weeds with you on some of the small reasons our simulator doesnāt like haste quite as much, if youād like. I donāt think that playing with low haste would be bad for BM, based on all my testing.
Iāll also add my public service announcement about target dummy testing: a 6% difference on a target dummy test in-game is, unfortunately, not a meaningful result. You would have to exactly perform your rotation for whatever fight length you prefer dozens, maybe even 50 times with each build to get an actual empirical comparison that can tell you a difference of 5% or so.
Thank you for taking time to explain your thoughts. As a hunter of many (way too many) years Iām going to avoid the +Versatility recommendations. My own simulations and R/W experience simply do not support it. I too prefer the Mastery - Crit - Haste priority, where possible, but many of the gear stats areā¦ awkward to build around. Perhaps Iām missing something, or maybe misunderstanding something. Regardless, I appreciate your time and effort in replying. Iāll continue to check and test (and use AMR) and see where we go.
Cheers,
Bloodsmite Bullfoot.
I kept digging into thisā¦ and the more I dig, I donāt understand how haste could be any good for beast mastery.
The frequency with which you use bestial wrath is not affected by haste in any way. Huge chunks of damage are tied to pressing that button:
Bestial Wrath damage itself (and entire value of 2 piece set bonus)
Dire Beast from 4pc uptime (the amount of damage it does scales with haste somewhat)
Bloodshed
Stomp via thundering hooves
Barbed Shot charge from Scent of Blood
Wild Instincts dot applications from stomp via thundering hooves
Natureās Ally pet uptime
Stampede
It makes no sense to want haste - the amount of damage it doesnāt affect is simply too high. Weāre talking easily 15-20% of your damage not affected by haste.
For real world I findā¦..
Mastery for Pet Damage then Crit for damage boost. Haste isā¦.. like you said is not very useful simply because it doesnāt affect everything but it does (this is my personal experience) offer more than Versatility.
I know that the hunter has the simplest rotation in the game but when I compare AMR build against my own stat priority I findā¦
In Delvesā¦ā¦.
I can almost match my wifeās Mage (Topaze - Moonglade) with the 4pc with Mastery, Crit then Haste.
Iām cannot match my wife when using AMRās recommendation.
When I was raiding hard-core, I used to know EVERYTHING regarding which stats did what. Iām far more casual now and donāt do all the theory crafting. Everything I do is based on AMR with SimulationCraft as a check. My thoughts are based on real world experiences these days, and not cutting edge theory.
Perhaps Iām just old and Iām missing something in the numbers. More likely is that Iām old and missing something in my skill level. I have no issues at all with recommended builds for other classes and will continue to rely on AMR for those alts.
Thanks for taking the time to answer my question, itās appreciated.
We arenāt optimizing for delves, which are really short pulls. That could change things.
We posted an update today that has some of the small tweaks Swol mentioned earlier in this thread. It wonāt change the result a ton, but it moves a little more into Mastery than Crit.
I write most of the optimization algorithm code so I have a different perspective on these things than people who are deep into the community recommendations for a specific spec. Here is what I see when I look at this Best in Bags result from a general, mathematical perspective:
- It removes that trinket with the horrify effect because it can be risky to use. Feel free to lock that in if you are playing around it well.
- It doesnāt care much about the 4pc set bonus ā see Swolās comments above about why.
- Because it doesnāt need to use the 4pc, itās able to get a little more primary stat (higher ilvl legs) and pick up a little more mastery
- The increase to versatility is incidental due to the specific distribution of stats on your available items ā itās not ātryingā to get you more versatility at the expense of some other stat. The items swaps that get you more agility and mastery happen to have versatility as the second stat.
This is a good optimization result that makes sense for your character, and in my opinion, also happens to be āon metaā for Beast Mastery as well. It ālooksā like it is trying to do something unusual, but itās actually being smart about increasing your higher value stats.
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I must admit Iād never considered my play style, Delves only, to be an issue. The more I think about it, the more it makes sense. Itās a problem Iāve only seen with my BM hunter. No other class. I will continue to use AMR, itās always served me well across the years Iāve been using it. Iāll just chalk this up to being a āMeā problem in the way I play the game. I really appreciate the time youāve taken to address this issue, and explain whatās happening.
Cheers.