WoW Classic Tanking and Hit

I’m testing AMR with my WoW Classic Prot Warrior Tank, who’s just starting to push into ZG (so still pretty undergeared).

AMR, even when set on full prot DPS and 30 second fights, is giving me a lot less hit than the conventional wisdom. It’s setting me at 4% when my current gearing puts me at 7%, or 6% when in full mitigation gear.

AP is also a fair amount lower (~10%), while stam, arm, def are higher (~10%, ~5%, ~10% respectively).

This worries me because I’m already not super comfortable with my level of threat gen vs my dps, my noob assumption is that missing more, and doing less damage, won’t help this.

Does it end up this way because:

a) AMR just doesn’t care that much about threat for prot tanks?
b) AMR takes hit and AP into account but just doesn’t see my low levels as super valuable?

Or is there something else I’m missing?

Just because having some amount of hit is “conventional wisdom” doesn’t mean there’s math supporting that. Mathematically and statistically speaking, hit is worse than people think and often surpassed by other stats.

Just think about it for a second: In a fight of 30 seconds, you will get in roughly 15-17 auto attacks and at maximum 15-20 abilites (depending on rage) for a total of about 30-35 attacks. That means that even without any hit (i.e. 9% miss vs. raid bosses), it’s not that unlikely to not miss a single attack while on average you might miss about 2-3 attacks on a fight of that length.
Of course, if that happens during an especially important situation that could be problematic but it’s really difficult (if not impossible) to mathematically include that and it’s statistically inlikely to occur anyways.

If you want to require a specific amount of hit you can use the “Customize” tab to set a threshold AMR will always try to reach for that stat.

If you’d provide a snapshot id created using the “Help” link above Best in Bags it would be possible to take a look at your specific data and get a much more specific idea what AMR recommends for your toon.

Thanks, makes sense. The way I’m thinking about this at the moment is “Gross DPS” - which in my head is weapon DPS + attack power DPS * (100% - miss rate).

I’ve been brute forcing equipment combinations from my bags using a hacked up Ruby script, got 14m in a database. From my gear, I’ve come up with a best “Gross DPS” of 101.2 (756 AP, 0% hit), whereas the best AMR gives me is 88.3 Gross DPS (514 AP, 4% hit) - seems a pretty big difference. (Both using Quel’Serrar.)

My snapshot ID is c8f1cd3cf40c4c6e9de77a9eedac524a, would love any further specific insight.

When you set the toughness level to “all DPS” as a tank spec… that isn’t really ALLLLL DPS. We still have to at least consider defensive gear because you are a tank spec. We create a score for dps and a score for defense. With the slider set to all toughness we give 10% weight to the defensive score and 90% weight to the dps score.

If you want to truly go full threat generation and not gear for toughness at all - you should dual wield fury tank. Set your “spec” to fury and use the toughness slider to adjust as you see fit.

@asashdor pointed out that hit isn’t really that good compared to other stats, especially on super short fights. It is kind of a persistent myth that getting “hit-capped” really matters most of the time.

I would also recommend that you do your optimization with all the relevant raid buffs and consumables you will be using. They make a huge difference in classic. Raiding without consumables in classic takes away a lot of your overall power, especially at lower gear levels.

Thanks. Yeah, that makes sense, though in practice I’m obviously not going to respec in between (for instance) ZG trash and Hakkar, so I’m not sure if it makes sense for me to model dual wield fury when I won’t be specced for it. I’d rather model “how much DPS/threat can I generate with the deep prot spec?”

I totally agree about hit-capping, and I suspect the same is true about the 440 defence cap, so with both I’m trying to focus on the outcome (effective dps or total mitigation percent) rather than the number (440 is obviously a heuristic).

You’re probably right about raid buffs and consumables, though as it stands there’s still a lot of solo grinding to do.

And while I’m here, another weird thing is that when set on “All DPS”, the optimizer recommends Ward of the Elements. That’s +8 to all resists but gives nothing on anything else (damage or mitigation), seems a weird thing to recommend in any situation except if you need specific resists?

You have your on-use items set to “none” and the only DPS trinkets you have really are on-use.