Broodkeeper Promise vs Primal Ritual Shell

Not sure where the issue lies (me, the sim, a bug, my playstyle etc) but AMR is showing me 0.30% healing increase with an ilvl 382 Ritual Shell over an ilvl 398 Broodkeeper Promise. After many Mythic + and two raids, I’ve found that Broodkeeper promise typically puts in ~6.6% of my total healing while the Ritual Shell typically puts in ~2.8% of my total healing.

Ritual Shell seems to heal the same amount per proc regardless of the ilvl. This could be where the issue is but I’m really not sure. Either way, despite Broodkeeper Promise returning me over 100% of the heals of ritual shell, AMR is telling me the ritual shell is an upgrade.

Any info or clarification is appreciated. If you need more info from me please let me know!

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I don’t see anything wrong with the estimate… what kind of overhealing are you seeing for each effect in your logs? That could have a significant impact.

Also, are you staying withing 15yds of your linked person pretty much all the time with Broodkeeper’s Promise? We assumed you would spend some amount of time outside the range for the increase – we can tweak that assumption though if most people are taking care to stay close to their linked target all the time.

edit: I do see one thing that might be increasing the ritual shell a bit too much, the proc rate is scaling with haste in the code but it appears that it does not in the spell data for the Sea blessing (it really should… but whatever, Blizzard has a hard time being consistent with this).

As far as I know the ritual shell scales with item level like any other trinket…

It’ll take me a few runs to figure out how much I’m overhealing with both, I don’t look into it often but that could be what I’m missing. It’ll take me a day or two to figure that out.

I think the ritual shell procs for about 63k hp no matter the ilvl. Higher ilvl seem to offer more Intellect but nothing else.

Do you have a source for the fact that it doesn’t scale?

~63k is in the neighborhood if it scales with item level using the coefficient in the raw game data for the sea turtle’s blessing. If it were scaling on player level instead, the coefficient would not arrive at that value.

The item is only available over a small-ish range of item levels, so it’s only going to scale from ~63k to 66k per proc, we’re not talking a huge difference.

I do not have a source. I’ll take your word for it. I’m surprised the coefficient scales that small.

My guess is that the main difference has to do with our estimate of how often you will or will not be within 15yds of your linked ally using Broodkeeper’s Promise. We can try increasing that estimate to be more in line with how most people are playing, see how things shake out.

I might have found the difference. The tooltip on Broodkeepers in AMR is about half off. By that I mean the 398 does around ~1120 per tick normal and ~2240 if I’m in range. The tooltip in AMR says the 398 broodkeeper does 594. So if the sim is calculating it as 594 that would be an issue. Not sure if you take the versatility into account but that’s different too. Versatility is slightly higher on live as well, I want to say 114. Which is weird because the tooltip in game doesn’t reflect what it’s doing either. (in game says 76 versatility and 968 per tick).

Tooltips are notoriously bad for trinkets…

I’ll see why it is parsing it as 594, but that is not the value we are using for optimization. Some of the tooltips are pretty mangled and hard to parse into the correct value so I’ll see what’s up.

For a 398 ilvl trinket, we are using 968 for the low value, and 2258 for the high value. The spell data has a “base” value of 1613, and it seems to indicate that the low value is 40% less and the high value is 40% more than that, giving the two previous values. (The vers works similarly, but a smaller range of +/- 20%.)

The actual heal amount will be impacted by healing received multipliers and versatility… sometimes the tooltips reflect those, sometimes they don’t.

Damn you guys know a lot about the inner workings of this stuff! lol i guess that’s to be expected. Thank you for all the help and I’m sorry I wasn’t able to help narrow down.

My final guess is that empowered spells don’t seem to be able to proc things like the turtle shell. I like getting the spiritbloom reduced cooldown talent and using the full ticks on spiritbloom, especially in raids, meaning a lot of my casts have (i believe) no chance to proc the shell.

I haven’t done a ton of testing on this, but using things like the furious ragefeather seem to be the same. They can’t proc off of things like Fire Breath. I don’t think channeled spells like Disintegrate either. It needs to be a traditional cast spell like Living Flame to proc the ragefeather and/or to send out the stored soulseeker.

If you’ve accounted for this already then I’ve got nothing left and I just want to thank you again for digging into it. Hope you guys have a good one. I love the tool!

I made a couple small tweaks in the last update, but in our next update I think I’ll increase the estimate for how often you get the “high” value ticks on Broodkeeper’s Promise. We’ll see how much of a difference that makes, and it seems like a reasonable thing to do.