First wave of questions! :D

Damage Paladins:

  1. I don’t see option to choose between Seal of Command and Seal of Righteousness. I can’t compare two different paladin’s build. Can you fix that?
  2. I see tendentious to avoid hit cap or make over hit cap. Can you explain that?
  3. I don’t see option to choose Judgement of the Crusader or other debuffs. Are they included in rotation?
  4. For retribution i don’t see to chose something like gear up for PvP. That bar from prot paladin should be interesting option.
  5. Can you add specific conditions like gear up vs undeads ect?

1 - If you have Seal of Command talent, it uses SoC, otherwise it uses SoR
2 - I’d have to see specific examples. There isn’t anything particularly sacred about the hit cap. If you have an example of it going over the cap, I’d like to see it so I can test it.
3 - I don’t have anything for judgement of the crusader because you can’t use it in raids. I generally ignored things that can’t be used in raids effectively because classic doesn’t have challenging non-raid content.
4 - We don’t do PvP optimization, sorry (we don’t for retail either)
5 - We will probably add an option for fighting undead - figured we could do that when we get close to naxx.

There are guilds that allow retpaladins to use JoTC and Consecration even, if both taking debuff slots.In most of that situations that retpala is enough strong compared to other raid members to be allowed to use it.

For example my guild use even few retpala and protadin, because we lack of other dps classes and we need to improvise.

yes besides debuff slots don’t matter, blizzard has a prio built in that the bad ones fly down first, if you look at the logs of the best guilds you can see that they all shit on debuff slots, storming, corruption everything is used too much

I don’t think, that JotC is easy to remove. Consecration also drop low tier debuffs.

Also i noticed, that for P3 list it suggest me Scourge Invasion items :smiley:
I can’t find Ring of Spell Power for dps.

If you find any items that are not tied to the proper release phase, please let us know the specific items (full name and/or IDs would be super helpful). We tried our best to get them all categorized correctly, but it was pretty tough to find definitive information for a lot of items.

Consecration takes a debuff slot? I am generally taking consecration into account in the calculations.

We can add a setting to have JotC up on the enemy.

I tried to get an answer to this in another thread, maybe you guys can answer it:
What is the actual mana cost of Judgement? Wowhead says 6% of base mana, indicating there is only one rank. But, some guides talk about down-ranking judgement, which implies multiple ranks. Could you guys tell me the actual mana costs of seals/judgements at all ranks?

I just double checked on my paladin and consecration isn’t taking a debuff slot.

Judgement is always 6% of base mana, the judgement down ranking come from the idea of downranking seal of authority so that the seal refresh cost less mana.

If you use higher ranks of seal of authority, the judgement and refresh judgement mechanics grow more in mana cost than in damage.

  • Consecration taking debuff slot atm, but we can’t see that as icon on debuff panel. We just see, how last debuff is drop per every used consecration. Currently Consecration works like AoE DoT
  • Also warlock improved shadow bolt taking another extra invisible debuff slot, if 2 warlocks with that talent hit and crit in the same time with shadow bolt. 3 warlocks will take 2 extra debuff slots ect xD
  • Fury Warrior Heroic strike and Cleave need only 9% hit with offhand.
  • Paladins can seal twist,
  • All can weapon twist.
  • Shadow Oil has internal 15 sec cooldown between uses
  • Blessing of Sacrifice can crit, so paladins can use it to generate recko bombs. (still paladin must sit to crit it)
  • Storm gauntlets lightning damage can crit and proc vengeance.
  • Some paladin spells use spell hit, but physical crit.

Many things do not works in classic like we wanted.

I like to use paladin 5 hit combo in 3 sec on pvp (without reckoning!) to crush clothers xD

My bad for consecration i just checked in game, with an addon it showed a debuff but without it it showed no debuff.

I though it wasn’t a true debuff….since shown only by an add-on.

We asking about that Blizz since months on forum and no answers

I guess I should add an option to toggle consecration on/off also if it takes up a debuff slot.


Down ranking means that we use older seal version than normally to keep some benefits.

for example SoC1 and SoC5 seals have exactly the same damage and they have the same proc chance, but mana cost and judgment damage are different. It can be used, when pala want to save mana to keep dps on longer encounter or he want save more mana for AoE Consecration.

Notable down ranking seals
SotC1 - seal twist, fast swing to finish target
SoC1 - mana save
SoR4 - first sor with highest sp coefficient, mana save

Also Consecration 1 - AoE, when oom. Some pvp uses

Judgement price is the same for all used seals - 6%

All seals use base mana cost like in wowhead.
The only one difference is Seal of Justice - 13%
Mana cost of seal and judgement can be reduced by Benediction talent.

A post was split to a new topic: Onyxia Tooth Pendant and Frozen Steel Vambraces source info

Judgement does really weak damage. If I was doing a long fight with mana problems, I’d just keep my seals up and judge here and there when I can. If a debuff slot is available, consecration is better damage than judgement, from any calculation that I can do.

Paladins, in general, do really, really low damage compared to other DPS specs. The amount of damage you do just keeping up seals and auto-attacking compared to also using judgement/consecration is a very small difference. I think it’s interesting how passionate people are about the spec in PvE :wink:

Judgement is needed not only for dps, but also to keep vengeance up. JoC use normal crit instead of spell crit, so JoC Crit chance is quite high.

Yeee. We are passionate :smiley:

Since classic we also upgraded pala with new mechanics. Especially spell power ret with mcp looks amazing in later phases. On LH privs they did even 80% dps of bis fury warriors xD. Personally i don’t want to farm MCP, but at 100% i will take 2nd the best alternative.

How could a paladin ever get even in the same ballpark as a warrior for sustained DPS? Even for 60 seconds? I really feel like those private servers must have been bugged!

In an update later tonight I added an option to have JotC up on the target, and a toggle for Consecration.

That was just simply.

*MCP have ability to reduce his attack speed per 50%. It works 3-times, so you can burst one mcp per 90 sec. We used counterweight as cheap enchant.
*Then use it with spell power gear. You should get ~700 sp from gear and consumables.
*Use both physical and spell consumables.
*Use as many on hit consumables as possible :smiley:
*Mix it with haste enchants and haste trinkets…

SoR damage isn’t reduced by haste effect and do not scale with weapon damage like SoC, so every 0.94 sec SoR doing the same damage with MCP like with 2.00 speed.
MCP is 2H Mace so works perfectly with Human Retpaladin :smiley: Then calculate that SoR damage with 700 SP. Add other spells buffed with SP, some consumables that scale with SP and you can create Holy Minigun that shine on the battlefield like Christmas Tree with all that “on hit” effects xD

P3 Example

Many players forget that Paladin isn’t only physical, but also magic type dps. So if Peneladin build is radical AP option, then Spelladin is radical SP option.

Sadly i can’t test it here by lack of spell power accessories like backs, rings and trinkets.

Also some trinkets with spell damage shows, that they do not increase damage done like Talisman of Ephemeral Power 18820

I put the manual crowd pummeler in… and I’m still not getting anything even remotely close to the DPS a warrior does.

I’ll be looking forward to seeing a log! Right now the best DPS parses I’ve seen for a paladin are still very low.

Stacking spell power, even with a crazy fast attack speed and SoR still doesn’t increase DPS as much as getting attack power or crit. The coefficient on SoR is too low.