Guardian Druid BiB Stat Distribution

I’m running Best in Bags for my Guardian Druid for a Mythic Raid tanking strategy. When I run BiB it is telling me to swap out my gear for crit & haste, even through the “optional stat distribution” is telling me I need more versatility and mastery. It is replacing all my vers/mas for crit/haste in the gear but then telling me my stats are all wrong. It’s pretty standard right now Guardians run vers/mas, so this is very confusing and seems like something is tripping up the robot in the background.

HOWEVER - if I lock in my Ra-Den trinket combo (vita & void titanshard trinkets) and then re-optimize it gives me a much more expected result in terms of gear and stats.

My input string:

83;US;Stormreaver;Ctrlaltshift;Karma Horde;8;2;120;79;13:175,15:753,12:161,1:175,3:190;3;.s1;6;3333322;;.s2;7;1313132;0.23.3_1.35.2_2.32.3_3.27.4;.s3;8;3331213;0.7.3_1.25.3_2.34.2_3.27.4;.s4;9;1233312;;.q1;110015s13v120b5473;45845s5b-3931b3244b33b591;2023s3b-3818b3194b632;192s2b-3852b3363b7b878;78s14b-4262b3229b22;161s11b-3221b3201b227e5945;1004s1b-3468b3244b33b592;14s9b-3839b3214b224;13s7b-3428b3201b227;291s16b-3483b3259b219e17;1009s12b-3493b3271b17e-18;4828s8b-3283b3269b340;1s10b-3589b3247b342;4s6b-5084b1495b3247b18b324x154128;1194s15b-3539b3199b16b1x1;.q2;157883s3b1637b3138b11b1720a278509a-4085a5475a-15937a16;192s2b-4878b3304b1b1383;1225s9b-4704b3172b18b208b840x168639;2s1b-4233b3158b11b662b822a10446a-1086a-9351a4609a-4618;36s7b-4628b3144b1727b19b18b28b1;6s10b-4947b3154b1729b1b16;115s12b-4920b3172b18b208b850x-2e6108;9516s8b-4343b3269b1727b3b14;248s15b-5058b4808;2968s16b-4778b3284b37b1744b11b1e-146;1945s5b-5092b3288b11b36b1682a15549a-5103a-7487a13076a-16035;4s6b-6464b1462b3284b37b1692b1;360s14b-5029b3299b36b1691;28s13b-5011b3284b37b1692;480s11b-5028b3299b36b1691b3x4e146;.q3;158075s2b1628b3304b1b1383;1263s7b-4674b3144b1727b19b18b28b1;3210s11b-4947b3154b16b1713b1b12x168642e6111;2929s3b-4951b3198b11b1059b664a278510a-5166a6582a-11332a-4616;2900s9b-5007b3282b15b1071;598s8b-4353b3269b1727b3b14;248s15b-5058b4808;2968s16b-4778b3284b37b1744b11b1e-149;1940s5b-5077b3273b11b37b1684a11928a41231a-49454a-3721a16;1s1b-5005b3273b11b37b1685a15574a-3646a-11919a4450a-4459;5s10b-5006b3284b37b1692b1;3s6b-6476b1462b3284b37b1692b1;360s13b-5029b3299b36b1691;28s14b-5011b3284b37b1692;3s12b-5013b306b2978b37b1690b3x0e149;.q4;110015s13v120b5473;47900s3b-3896b3198b11b629a273344a7066a-12745a12348a-16035;30s1b-3838b3198b11b628a15546a905a-16445a4615a-4621;130s2b-3848b3363b7b878;78s14b-4262b3229b22;161s11b-3221b3201b227e5945;1018s9b-3438b3214b224;13s7b-3428b3201b227;291s16b-3483b3259b219e17;5837s8b-3488b3269b340;1s10b-3589b3247b342;4s6b-5084b1495b3247b18b324x154128;355s5b-3619b3268b11b36b591a14531a1018a-15419a4491a-4621;839s15b-3826b3199b16b1x1;.ess;2_3;3_3;4_4;5_3;6_4;7_3;12_4;13_4;14_3;15_3;16_2;17_3;18_3;19_3;20_3;21_3;22_3;23_3;25_3;27_4;28_4;32_3;33_2;34_2;35_2;36_2;37_2;.inv;2453;4495;3077;7179;945;414;13943;332;982;5534;3946;750e5930;988;26579;17;1;0;1;0;0;0;0;0;0;1;0;0;0;0;0;0;0;0;0;0;0;1;0;0;0;0;0;0;0;77;0;0;0;0;0;0;0;1;236;2082;0;12513;852;20259e-1487;1418;55;122;1307;997;4858;982;2860;2083;1884b40b1438b321;3616;466b-1074b831x142190y9849z252p1527p1809p200q-2034q2026q84r-2125r2041r83;515b-832b849x-255y3811z-3556p-2099p1824p276q-2095q1819q276r-2105r1829r276;37b-851b829x-265y-9837z9835p-2125p2041p83q-2089q2006q8r-2049r2041r83;2b-828b852x15y-11z22p-2099p1824p276q-2100q1824q276r-2095r1820r275;3654;0;1062;4066;1135;1415;1141;113;159;2690b236b1819;3007;1;3813;18;668b-1819b1819;703;1;1;1;1;1;1;1;1;28;1;0;1;1;1;1;1;1;1;27;1;2;52;37;207;1;1;173;1;595;1;474;43;1;0;2;6b354b13;1b-12b12;1b-13b5;520;0;0;0;27;0;0;175;1;1;961b-2372b3158b11b662b821a274424a5986a-12745a-3703a16;0b-4652b3158b11b662b821a10446a-1086a-5673a-3703a16;2023b-4632b3138b11b1720a14531a-4085a5475a-15937a16;30b-4869b3149b1719;2b-4868b3149b1720;32b-4869b3149b1720;240;1;1;12;1;2;102b-4904b3182b226b855;47b-4233b3154b1727b3b12;9b-4896b3154b1729b1b12;2b-4911b3158b11b662b822a15574a1962a-17406a-146a16;14;917b-4638b3154b1727b3b14;5b-4918b3172b18b208b840x16589;2b-4233b3158b11b662b822a10446a-1086a-9351a4609a-4618;5b-4653b3158b11b662b823a10446a5103a-15543a16029a-16035;7b-4654b3158b11b662b821a15574a-3646a-11798a4488a-4618;9b-4652b3158b11b662b823a10446a5983a-16299a-146a16;0b-4654b3158b11b662b823a11928a4501a-16299a-146a16;2b-4654b3169b220b1509b1;5b-4899b3158b11b662b821a10446a4085a-14522a4450a-4459;14b-4637b3154b1729b1b16;115b-4920b3172b18b208b850x-2e1665;153b-4228b3154b1729b13;5b-4896b3154b1729b15;38b-4918b3172b226b840e-146;1b-4208b3144b1729b17b12b34b1;303;94;6;239;100;1;1;309;2;1749;1;0;0;54;521;403b-4942b3149b339b1388b31b34b1;165;2063b-4942b3149b16b1b1710;36;245;496;402;124;0;0;1;28;308b-4986b3257b1101b439b25;248b-4862x-965y1077z-117p1174;7;176;0;307;140;37;40;41;3b30b3269b14e186;4;1;0;0;0;0;0;0;0;0;0;0;0;2;1;1;0;12;0;20b-3283b3258b11b38b1446a10446a4085a-14525a4610a-4616;0b-4753b3258b11b38b1446a11928a2604a-14526a4610a-4616;29b-4753b3269b14;111;158;0;0;0;1;3;1;1;151;30;0;143b-3273b3259b1727b17b34b14b1;101b-5062b3269b1729b1b12;223;0;0;0;0;12b-5011b291b2975b17b1050x7;2b-4333b3269b14;138;0;0;0;159;84;781;723;10;802;509;77b-3233b3219b1581b21b82b12b33b63b1;2b-5022b3229b1600b3b116;191b-4968b3248b1670b16b44b63b1;574;0;0;0;0;30;1;2;1;4;1;2;2;0;3;0;2;0;2;0;2;0;1;1;1;2;2;16b-5077b3284b1718;2b-5002b3284b16b1b1609b103b1x3;3b-5014b3284b1720;21b-5004b3284b17b1609b103b1;25b-5014b3284b17b1609b103b1;555b-5014b3284b37b1692;62b-5028b3299b36b1728b28b1e-186;25b-5092b3288b11b36b1682a10446a5103a-13347a-2218a16;1b-5002b3273b11b37b1685a10446a42713a-53150a4450a-4459;4b-5021b3288b11b36b1682a15549a-5103a-7487a13076a-16035;2b-5017b3299b36b1648b3b40b65b1;0b-6536b1459b3284b37b1692b38b25b1;1b-5077b3284b37b1692b1;2b-5014b3284b37b1692b29b34b1;1b-5092b3299b36b169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My snapshot ID with no gear locked in:

5b89f14590f64e2489864fbc066e53b1

My snapshot ID with the Ra-Den trinkets locked in:

5c032eb4f80d4a02a676f0bb4fd7c64c

Something odd is happening here, I’m sure @yellowfive will have a look when he wakes up.
I did notice that in the BiB setup you’ve got a different essence chosen from what you’re using in the export, is that intentional or got lost while you were testing things trying to understand the results?

89.77% TUF _9.7% death chance in current gear.
77.22% TUF 34.1% death chance, BiB, nothing locked.
77.40% TUF 33.5% death chance, BiB, nothing locked but major essence changed.
91.83% TUF _7.0% death chance, BiB with trinkets locked (second snapshot).

I tried Touch of the Everlasting as the AMR Guardian guide really likes it and I was interested to see the sim result.
87.20% TUF 10.9% death chance, BiB no customisations and R2 TotE.
89.10% TUF _7.8% death chance, as above but R3.
91.81% TUF _3.1% death chance, BiB with locked trinkets and R2 TotE (second snapshot).
92.37% TUF _1.2% death chance, same as above but R3 TotE.

My guess is the trinket pair bonus is being valued very highly. I’ve only got one half so I’ve got no idea how easy the orb is to get and even less idea how likely it will be to get it as the tank.

This is still happening. I just ran BiB for Mythic tanking and it is telling me to take off my versatility rings (which have vers, gemmed for vers, and enchanted for vers) and drops me down below 300 versatility as my “best in bags” set up, and then the stats distribution is like “you need more versatility.” No shit! I can’t imagine dropping that low in vers as a bear tank on purpose.

Input string:

86;US;Stormreaver;Ctrlaltshift;Karma 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Snapshot:

c6084ec05a5b4621a5a700597073e0df

Would really like to know why BiB is jacking up my stat distribution and then yelling at me for having bad guardian stat distribution.

Addendum: It’s also suggesting Ripple in Space as a minor. For raid tanking, where most fights I’m standing still or if there’s movement it’s during non-combat. Seems odd.

We can take a look at it - but it seems like the optimizer believes that you are tough enough, so it is preferring stats that are better for DPS. If you toggle the stat analysis to damage, you’ll see that crit/haste are the preferred stats for damage.

We rank Ripple in Space for you as if you are able to make use of it. That shows you how good it could potentially be. If you don’t think you’ll be able to make use of it, exclude it and the optimizer will pick the next best essence.

Also, just as a general FYI on the stats the optimizer picks not always following what the stat analysis says:

Okay, but if I’m “tough enough” and drop almost all of my versatility for crit/haste I’m pretty sure I will NO LONGER be “tough enough.” I’m curious to know what the break point is there for TUF in regards to Mythic Tanking.

In fact, if I change the slider from “mythic” tanking to “all defense” it is still giving me the same result. It wants me to drop my versatility below 300 in favor of crit/haste. I don’t see how that adds up for an “all toughness” build at all.

I think yellow said he was going to look at tweaking the toughness slider a bit. The optimizer thinks that you’ll be fine even with a damage-oriented crit/haste build. I don’t know if that is true or not, but that’s what it thinks right now.

Out of curiosity, have you tried it out in-game? I did some testing… and the actual difference in toughness between a haste/crit build and a vers/mastery build is not huuuuge. It’s noticeable probably, but unless you’re right on the edge of being able to survive, probably won’t make or break you either way.

I am working on some tweaks to toughness rankings across the board – they are always a bit finicky as people gear up in a new raid tier. Corruption has made it a bit more complicated, because it significantly impacts the effective “budget” available on your gear.

Gearing for toughness also has a lot of “fuzz” to it compared to e.g. gearing for DPS. None of the secondary stats are so bad for toughness that you’ll feel completely squishy if you say drop 500 vers to gain 500 crit.

That said, I think people would like it if the optimizer more aggressively favored stat combinations that match up to the recommendations for toughness, regardless of whether some other combination is just as good. Working on a way to do that.