Shgla'yos, Astral Malignity



Im confused about Mr. Robot showing that this item: Shgla’yos, Astral Malignity is an upgrade for me both on normal and LFR mode, when I´m already having the same item on HC mode.

How can that be?

Because this is an upgrade comparing to your current equipped weapon. I guess Upgrade Finder doesn’t count items in bags, only equipped ones.

By the way, you should check “Cleanse Corruption” option for Upgrade Finder. More info about this New Feature: Cleanse Corrupted Gear

The upgrade finder does look at all items in your inventory.

If you change the filter to allow Heroic raid items too, you’ll see that we mark the Heroic version of that item as “Owned”. We treat each difficulty version of an item as a different item right now… so that we can show a ranking for each difficulty.

In the future we might tweak how this behaves for the different difficulty versions of the same items, mainly relevant for raiding and dungeon drops.

Then unclear why LFR item counted as gain…

The corrupted items are a bit tricky – they will show as upgrades because the corrupted effects are strong, but often it would require gaining more corruption than you’d like to have.

None of that makes sense, as the corruption amount is totally the same on both the HC, Normal and LFR item - so I therefore didn´t get wiser?

Generally speaking, the upgrade finder compares items to your currently equipped gear and shows the upgrade you could get when using those items. Most of the time an item with corruption will be better than an item without - as long as you just compare those items in a vacuum, which is exactly what the upgrade finder does.

Of course, this might conflict with your corruption limit and another combination of corrupted items might be stronger but that’s something the upgrade finder is not built to decide. To be able to include that, the upgrade finder would have to run a full BiB optimization for every available item which is just not feasibly doable as that would need a ridiculously large amount of calculations and would take far too long (possibly minutes, depending on your filters and the amount of items you own).

The upgrade finder does show if you already own an item though, so the heroic version of that weapon would at least show up as “owned”. You technically don’t have the lfr and normal versions, so the upgrade finder will still calculate and show their theoretical value. That’s obviously not perfect as you don’t really need a worse version of an item you already have but it looks like that’s just a byproduct of being able to rank all difficulties independently.
In an ideal world that wouldn’t happen but I suspect it’s just not worth it to maintain a list of “identical” items from different difficulties just for that situation. As far as I know there’s no way to automatically get that data and it would have to be put in manually for every single item…

Okay, but why doesn´t the system then show the same on all other items? I mean if it is working that way the system should also show the lower ilvl gear as upgrades, instead of just Shgla’yos, Astral Malignity, if you are right about what you are saying?

Hope you understand what I mean?

Of course it would if that’d be the case - which it isn’t most of the time. Generally speaking lower item level gear is worse than higher item level gear (excluding special situations or rings/trinkets) so everything is working correctly. There is one major problem though: guaranteed corruptions, as yellowfive mentioned.

Those will artifically inflate the value of that specific item but AMR has to include it when comparing that item to alternatives. Some corruptions are just so stupidly strong that item level will become secondary, especially when compared with another item without any corruption (like your currently equipped weapon) - at least if you ignore corruption limits which the upgrade finder has to do to not take far too long to calculate everything.

That behaviour can only occur for weapons though as that’s the only slot where guaranteed corruptions exist. If there were similar items for other slots, e.g. gloves, you’d get the same result: an lfr item with a strong, guaranteed corruption would show up as an upgrade as you’re currently not using any corruption on that specific slot.

If the corruption is totally the same on all 3 levels (HC, Normal & LFR), then it shouldn´t be hard to make AMR figure our that a higher ilvl item ofc is better because of the higher stats, so it therefore shouldn´t show lower ilvl on the same item as an upgrade.

I´m also already wearing “Spaulders of Miasmic Mycelia”, and in best in slot AMR i showing that I need to replace that item with the exact same item and ilvl. Dosen´t make sense either.

So that just made me doubting on AMR, if it is worht paying for.

If you’d currently use the heroic weapon then yes, of course, it would correctly show the lower versions as worse. You’re instead using another weapon without any corruption effect though, so the upgrade finder has to compare the different versions of Shgla’yos to that weapon, not some other weapon you’re currently not even using.

So yes, even a lfr Shgla’yos is better than your M+14 Wand of Zealous Purification. That’s all the upgrade finder shows and that’s definitely correct. Yes, it might not be ideal to use because you’d get another 50 corruption but it’s just not possible to include that without taking far too long to calculate everything.

The issue with those Shoulders and BiS is most likely caused by Blizzard’s ridiculously inconsistent item data. For a couple addons Blizzard has been relying on so-called “bonus ids” to modify items, i.e. adding sockets, titanforging, difficulty data, corruption, and so on. To correctly identify an item, AMR has to compare the bonus ids of items to see if those match.

That sounds pretty easy but in reality there are so many seemingly random bonus ids that don’t appear to have any effect and the AMR team has to find out manually which ids to consider and which to ignore.

We had another similar post a couple weeks ago where someone got the exact same ring twice (one of the rings from a current world boss so not even different difficulties possible) and those two rings had wildly different bonus ids. Why? Nobody knows, probably not even Blizzard…

Best in Bags has a lot to take into account and the biggest, most recent problem to it’s optimisation is Corruption.
This is another ‘spanner (wrench if your part of the world prefers) in the works’ of random stuff that many pieces can have added to them to increase their worth beyond their base stat’s. What also adds to this spanner/wrench is that not all Corruption types are equal to all players, but we’ll be keeping things to pure no’s., for now.

Now; the best way to find the ultimate best gear you currently own is to set Corruption to unlimited.
In this case, I set “Max. Corruption” to 300 & got this:

While that’s insane to do so, it gives you something to work with.

Next… decisions are required to lock in the “types” of gear - specifically Weapon combinations - you prefer to use. The image above shows that your ultimate best gear - irrespective of Corruption levels - is a combination that includes an Off-Hand item; should you prefer a Two-Hand option, you get this:

What we have now - based on the above - is where you want to limit your Corruption… and your start point is that you are able to negate 87 of whatever your gear items has been supplied with.

  • The Sword & Off-Hand pairing has 125 Corruption alone, so you get a ‘balance’ of 38 as long as NO OTHER GEAR has any Corruption on it.
  • Best Two-Hand option has 0 Corruption, so you can go mad on the rest of your gear being Corrupted, based on the first 87 meaning nothing (it works out to be a ‘balance’ of 78, by the way).

My guess would be that you’d like to use the Hc Raid Sword (50 Corruption, easily handle by you Resistance), but… do you ‘need’ your Off Hand to be Corrupted too…? While it has a better level of the same Corruption, you may want to choose one or the other, but ultimately it’s YOUR choice. Whichever way you decide, we come to the next consideration – Cleansing.

While that’s a lot to take in, using the Cleanse Corruption calculator can give you an alternate viewpoint to things. If we start with a default baseline suggestion of 39, then you get this:

The problem we have here is that there doesn’t appear to be a way to factor this into any part of Best in Bags, to get an overview, before actually Cleansing. However, a quick glance over what is suggested to BE Cleansed does allow for the 50 Infinite Stars on the Sword at the heart of the debate to be used… and a few other smaller upgrades in mere item Level along the way.

If all of this is WAAAAAY wide of what you’re looking for, then I apologise… but it’s the kind of creative thinking I (sometimes) do that many often see as OVERthinking.
If it’s help in any small way, then I see that as a bonus.

Good luck in however any of this pans out. :slight_smile: