Why dont you guys want to fix Balance druid?

Ive been using AskMrRobot for years. And its working great for my Resto Druid, Paladin, DK, etc except balance druid. Ive been checking this forum and this issue has been raised again and again and you guys deflected and ignored it. Im doing more dps on my 466 paladin than my 483 balance druids because AskMrRobot is obsessed with crit instead of the real stat for balance, mastery. Its sad to see how bad my balance druid is compared to everything else. Please for the love of god update the balance stats to actual ones that actually do damage. Its just sad for me to have to use raidbots for balance when I have AskMrRobot paid for and works great on all other specs.

We would need a specific example to determine if something is going on. The best way is to provide us a snapshot where you think the optimization isn’t correct, and then a specific description of what you think it should have picked instead. Instructions on how to make a snapshot in this post:

Why should i bother myself? Ive seen this exact feedback time and time again on this forum and everyone got ignored. So why should i spend time researching when il be ignored? The issue is that the bib favours crit for balance druid when mastery is the main stat. Im getting destroyed in m+ by people 20 ilvl lower then me (and my own 20 ilvl lower characters!) because BiB favours crit instead of mastery. How hard is it to understand it? Im not trying to be toxic or aggressive. Im actually trying to understand this.

EDIT: For further info why im so aggravated, ive known about this issue since BFA. How BiB favours crit instead of mastery but I didnt try to play Balance as much as before so i ignored it. And now when im trying and other balance that stacks mastery does 2x more dmg than me even with lower ilvl just makes me sad.

Snapshot. It forces crit up to 30% and ignored mastery at 24%. While other better Balance stack mastery to 30+ ( Nagurawr - Character (blizzard.com) while ignoring Crit(19% or lower). And its obviously better for AOE when they do more dmg than me in 10 seconds with 1 starfall than i do the entire pull.

Thanks for the snapshot, we’ll take a look at it sometime tomorrow.

Simply put - the community work out how a Class/spec. combination plays before the optimising sites do, even if said community members ARE part of an optimisation site.

With all due respect, you seem to be looking for someone/somewhere to “tell you” how to spec. your character rather than following ADVICE (as that’s all that is on offer)… any site like this that TELLS you how to spec. is, to me, a bit on the egocentric side - the only ones who can TELL you how to spec. are Blizzard. That said, why do AMR “have to follow the pack”…? If they’re prepared to put in the work to back up their findings, I’d say they’re better qualified than any single player to offer advice.

If you, personally, have put together the evaluative evidence to query them (AMR), please present it to them in private communication.

We never ignore feedback!

But, we don’t necessarily change the advice the website gives in all cases. This particular case is something that I have looked at multiple times, but I decided to look at it again, since our recommendations aren’t aligning with what is popular.

I think we need to put this in context first.

Balance druid has changed significantly over the past couple expansions. Any advice we had in BfA would not be relevant at all to what we advise now. We aren’t even using the same calculation method!

And another point - the change in damage you could expect by shifting your stats around is nowhere near the scale you are talking about. You will not see 2x damage by putting 2000 of your stats into mastery instead of crit. The game just doesn’t work like that. If you are seeing that large a difference compared to people in similar item level gear - it is not because you chose different stats.

After looking at it again, I was able to make some changes to how I’m doing the calculations that I think will push the optimizer towards mastery. For performance, we have to make some estimates for certain effects, and I was being too conservative with how I handled the various haste and crit buffs, which was pushing the optimizer to still want a lot of haste and crit. I tweaked the calcs based on what I’m seeing in logs to be more liberal with uptimes on those crit/haste buffs, and now it likes mastery more.

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Im sorry but when im doing more damage on my 466 paladin than my 483 druid (to make things equal i played with hekili for both so my own skill doesnt matter) theres a bit more difference than what you think it is. I havent yet checked the new changes but will soon. Thanks for having another look!

As a data point, at the beginning of the expansion I did extensive analysis of different secondary stat distributions for every spec across many talent combinations – approximately 100,000 talent combinations per spec. For each of the 100k talent combos, I ran tests that favored each of the secondary stats very highly (e.g. very high crit and low haste/mastery/vers), each pair highly (e.g. high crit/haste and low mastery/vers), and balanced (all 4 stats the same). These tests kept the total budget the same.

The largest swing that I saw for any spec and any talent combination was about a 15% drop in total DPS from the worst combination of stats to the best combination of stats. And that was rare. Most specs only saw a 5-10% difference from worst to best.

Now 15% is certainly a big difference, even 5-10% is a big difference – you absolutely want to choose the correct stats. That said, if you are seeing differences much larger than that (e.g. a similar ilvl balance druid on your team is beating you by 40% on most fights, or you are parsing in very low percentiles for your item level), a majority of that is not because of the gear that you chose.

What level keys are you running? Ret shines in low keys, up front burst where Balance does better in longer fights. The shorter the fight, the worse balance does. You wont notice a chance till 16+ even with 20 ilvl. If you dont see Balance overtaking Ret…then revisit your gameplay.

Nagurra and others mentioned this quite a bit.

AMR: Haste/Mastery are far the better stats for Boom so glad you looked at your sims and addressed issues.

Stop trying to deflect. Crit was bad on balance. THANK YOU for fixing it. The model was so bad that after the “minor fix” i have mastery at 18 and crit at 10 in weights (after i already equipped several mastery pieces i had in bank). That would tell you how badly designed was the system before.

I’m not deflecting. I’m just putting it in perspective for anyone who may come across this in the future. We definitely want to fix any potential issues in our models and thank you for bringing it to our attention, but we also want people to be realistic about the gains they can expect from gear optimization.

You said, “And now when im trying and other balance that stacks mastery does 2x more dmg than me even with lower ilvl just makes me sad.”

We want to make sure that people understand that this is an exaggeration of the gains you can expect from shifting around your secondary stats. Absolute worst case, you’ll see a ~15-20% swing in damage from the worst combinations to the best combinations of secondary stats for a given spec. In this case we aren’t even talking about a worst case combination (for example, stacking only versatility), so the difference will be much smaller.

Though I wish our optimizer could double your damage output over night by coming up with a magical combination of secondary stats… it’s just not possible. Gear can only take you so far.

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