We posted an update today with several bug fixes as well as updated rankings for Priests and Shamans.
Version 11 of the in-game addon now supports the (well-hidden! thanks @baarsik for telling me how to enable it) blizzard equipment manager in a similar fashion to the retail WoW addon.
When I look for P1 BIS for Assassination rogues, it seems to prioritize Agility over AP. From what I read from other sources, this is wrong. Poisons scale off AP.
I am assuming this is why Mr. Robotās BIS varies from other sources. And also why it suggests Agility gems over AP.
1 point of agility gives 1 point of attack power for rogues. (1 point of strength also gives one point of attack power for rogues.) There may be some talents or multipliers that make agility better point-for-point than attack power, canāt remember off the top of my head.
If you have a specific example where you think the optimizer is choosing an incorrect item, make a snapshot with the āhelpā link next to the big āBest in Bagsā or āBest in Slotā section headers, then Create Support Post, and post the generated snapshot ID here with a description of which alternative you think the optimizer should be picking over what you are seeing.
My apologies. I think youāre right here. AP is not better than Agility. I donāt see it stack the 62 AP over the 32 Agility JCās get so it confused me, along with Mr. Robots BIS varying. Iāll look more into it.
Agility also give some crit. Crit gives you more combo points. More combo points gives you more uptime on the envenom debuff, which increases the damage of your poisons. I think once you factor in all the multipliers and how all abilities scale/relate - itās a very not obvious relationship between Agility and AP. The relationship is going to be very close between the two stats. I trust the robot.
If I look at BiS - the optimizer isnāt picking agility gems. So it probably has to do with your particular setup.
Iām looking what the robot spits out as P1 BIS, no exclusions, JC/Eng, Assassination, and it is picking the JCās agility gems over AP. Iām not sure what the difference between my setup and yours is atm.
Either way, probably have to mess with it some more. I appreciate your replies.
You can always post snapshots and we can take a look
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Hereās a snapshot with some exclusions that fit my profs/items I will not have access to. it optimizes it with +34 Agi over 64 AP. Oddly enough, if you click to switch the gem, it shows the 64 AP gem as a 0.27% upgrade.
Also, it displays Fleshshaper MH, Libarianās Paper Cuter OH. It should be the opposite for Assassination for most bosses/other sustained same-target DPS situations. This isnāt a big deal for me, but it could be for someone who doesnāt know so I figured Iād mention. The reasoning, as mentioned by Simonize,
"The weapon with Deadly Poison has to be fast because DP has a fixed chance to trigger per attack, regardless of the speed of the weapon it is applied to. A faster weapon means more DP triggers from auto attacks. This is a very big deal, since once DP is stacked to 5 each additional DP trigger will cause an Instant Poison trigger, which is a lot of damage.
The weapon with Instant Poison can be fast or slow and you usually just pick the highest DPS option you have regardless of speed. IP works differently than DP- IP has a higher chance to trigger per hit on a slower weapon and a lower chance to trigger per hit on a faster weapon. This means that the number of triggers you get from auto attacks is going to be the same no matter the weapon speed.
- A slower weapon for IP means youāll get more IP triggers from abilities like Mutilate. Roughly the same number of Mutilate casts regardless of weapon speed, but slower weapon gives higher chance to trigger IP per cast of Mutilate ā more IP triggers total.
- A slower weapon has higher physical damage per hit which increases the physical damage per cast of Mutilate slightly.
- A faster weapon results in more triggers of Focused Attacks talent, giving very slightly more energy and very slightly more ability casts.
The first consideration for which dagger goes in which hand has to do with the poisons. No matter what weapon speeds the poisons are applied to for an Assassination rogue, Deadly Poison will have a higher chance to trigger per hit than Instant Poison.
This means you will get more DP triggers by putting the DP weapon in your mainhand because Envenom gives a chance to trigger the mainhand poison and Mutilate gives two chances to trigger the mainhand poison, only one chance to trigger the offhand poison.
In a situation like a boss enemy where Deadly Poison stacks up to 5 and you keep attacking the same target, you have a decent boost to your total poison damage by putting the DP weapon in the mainhand. If you are fighting trash and frequently attacking a target without 5 stacks of DP, its not so good to have DP in the mainhand. In this situation you would prefer your Instant Poison weapon to be in the mainhand for upfront damage.
If your Instant Poison weapon is slower and or has higher weapon DPS than your Deadly Poison weapon, putting the Instant Poison weapon in the mainhand will increase auto attack physical DPS and/or also Mutilate physical damage per cast. This is because the offhand weapon gets a inherent -50% damage penalty, and even after your +50% Dual Wield Specialization talent the offhand weapon is still suffering -25% damage compared to the mainhand.
In most circumstances, the poison benefit of the Deadly Poison weapon in the mainhand outweighs the physical damage loss of having a potentially slower/higher DPS weapon in the offhand. If your two daggers are extremely far apart in weapon DPS then the physical damage difference may be more significant and you would just keep the high DPS weapon in the mainhand all the time. An example of this would be Sinister Revenge + Librarianās Paper Cutter. With this setup you would want to use SR + IP in MH and LPC + DP in the OH all the time because of the vast DPS difference between SR and LPC."
Iāll take a look at the gemsā¦ I think thereās something going on with jewelcrafter gems, the bane of my existence. So much complexity for so little gainā¦ I weeped with joy when the 3 JC gem thing became no longer a thing.
I am optimizing with instant poison on the main hand and deadly poison on the off hand, so it makes sense for the faster weapon to be chosen in the off hand.
I donāt think that logic for putting deadly on main hand holds up (in the sense that it matters). If you use envenom with instant on mh, you have one chance to apply instant poison when you envenom. If you do envenom with deadly on main hand (at max stacks), you have one chance to apply instant poison. Itās the same. Regardless of which hand you put poisons on, mutilate always gives two chances to apply instant when at max deadly stacks. The off hand damage penalty does not apply to poisons.
I think it is really common to have instant on main hand and deadly on off - at least that is what I gathered from guides I looked at.
It doesnāt matter what hands the daggers go in - you just want instant on the slower weapon and deadly on the faster one.
The agility gemsā¦ are probably an optimizer thing. Itās so hard to optimize gems - we will try to improve it some, but gems are a true pain in the ass. The amount of code we have just for gems is ridiculous, considering how minimal an impact gem choice makes (other than using no gems at all, ha).
Iām not educated enough go in-dept with fast MH with DP, slow OH with IP for sustained same-target fights. I can only direct to resources I know, and the most credible source I have which states this is Simonize himself. He theorycrafts rogues only for classic versions of the game and has public spreadsheets to do further theorycrafting, etc. He also posts/maintains the classic rogue guides on Wowhead.
I do wonder if this makes the Mr. Robots BIS slightly different? Probably not. Either way, as I mentioned prior, I appreciate you both taking the time to reply.
I have 12+ years of WoW TC experienceā¦ does that count!? old man shakes his fist
Iām sure that person knows their stuff - but I think those assumptions about which hand weapon to put poison on is all based on poisons being subject to the off hand damage penalty, which I donāt think they are. Maybe that was a private server thing.
It counts!
āpoisons being subject to the off hand damage penaltyā
The penalty comment youāre referring to is to physical damage, not poisons. So, that would not be the factor or in other words, you are correct 
In no way I want to question your experience because you definitely have more of it than me, but Simonize explicitly refers to the number of Deadly Poison procs.
From what I noticed, putting fast weapon in MH makes mr.robot to scream at you with like 4% dps loss. I am probably going to test the damage later today and post results here.
Forgive me if this is already implemented Iām not sure if its even possible but could Mr robot do āSpellhanceā upgrades and BiB optimizing ??
Iād have to see a log or something to confirm this - I donāt think mutilate gets two poison triggers on the MH poison.
For science, I tried switching the hand the poisons were on - the results were interesting. The DPS did go up a little bit (maybe 1%), so I think that is a good change. I think this must be due to deadly poison having a slightly higher chance to apply and benefiting from extra application chances when envenom is used.
You will see BiS still want a slower main hand when only one higher ilvl (dps) weapon is available, like Sinister Revenge. In that case, putting Sinister Revenge in main hand and Webbed Death in off hand is still better, even with deadly poison on the main hand weapon. Auto attacks are still a significant portion of the DPS, so the higher DPS weapon will still always go in the MH.
Yeah. This is exactly what all the guides say. They just argue at which point it is worth to put fast wpn into MH. I will do a dummy test in a couple of hours.
Testing on a dummy, Mutilate does give a chance of triggering the MH poison twice but, it is not 100% it seems.
For reference, I put deadly on my MH as my only poison to make it easier to track as it shows you the stacks. I also looked at details to make sure I did not auto melee attack.
All in all, the statement seems true as a chance.
Anyone know if warriors still use main hand hit chance for off hand attacks while heroic strike is queued in wotlk?
I canāt find badge gear listed in the upgrade finder. Looking at the list: Raid, Dungeons, Crafted, Rep Vendors, PVP & Purchased, would assume its in purchased, but Iāve looked and itās no where.
2nd, I donāt see TBC enchants as options. I would think they should still be listed.